102: Matt Gallant, CEO & Co-Founder of BiOptimizers: What Matt Learned After Spending $45,000 On His Sleep (& Sleep Supplement Deep Dive!)

Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie McGlocklin, and I own a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts, ranging from doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper.

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Let's jump into your dose of practical sleep training.

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Welcome to the Sleep is a Skilled Podcast. First off, my audio is a little funky right now I'm traveling. I'm in Idaho sharing about the Wonders of Sleep to a whole very cool group out here, but I don't have a mic, so just bear with me on this intro. It will get. So I want to tell you about today's guest, Mac Galant, and I am very, very excited for you to hear more about how he's thought about sleep, because he's someone that spent over $45,000 in optimizing his own personal sleep.

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So we're gonna talk about what were some of the things that he invested in? What did he discover in kind of n equals one perspective, but beyond that, his many, many years working in the realm of supplementation and specifically developing many supplements for sleep specifically.  and seeing what can we glean from this conversation?

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Because if you've been listening to The Sleep As a Skill podcast for a while, it's likely that you've noticed that largely we're talking about behaviors, we're talking about free things or environmental shifts, or perspective shifts or otherwise that you can do to shift your sleep. We're not always talking so often about supplements, so this is an opportunity to go deeper on this topic.

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Cause I know many of you have requested that, and I should also let you know. Bio Optimizers Mac's Company, he's a co-founder. There is one of our sponsors for a reason. I use their magnesium every single night. So not just a sponsor for sponsor's sake, but because I actually truly do use this product. And I've seen for myself and many clients, every client we work with has multiple wearables often, but certainly at least just the or ring bare minimum.

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And so we get to see changes that happen in their sleep, and it's been really a part of that stack to bring in certain types of sleep supplements if they apply to the individual. And Bio Optimizers has been a trusted brand in that process. So a little bit about Malott. Macallan is the CEO and co-founder of Bio Optimizers and has a bachelor's degree in kinesiology.

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He's been a strength and conditioning coach from multiple pro-athletes, a self-defense instructor, and has over 15 years experience formulating supplements. He's also a serial entrepreneur that's, Built over 13 profitable companies. So now we're gonna jump into this podcast and I really, really encourage you to reach out.

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If you have any sort of questions, comments, concerns, you can always go to sleep@skill.com. There's a little kind of bot in the lower right hand corner so you can ask any of your questions and we can take it from there. But I hope you're gonna really enjoy today's podcast. So I get a lot of questions around sleep supplements, and I'm very hesitant to just throw out a whole laundry list of possibilities.

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One, I don't think it's the most responsible thing to do. I really do believe in testing to see what types of supplements make sense for you. And two, because I really truly believe that most of the things that you can do to improve your sleep are behavioral, psychological, environmental in nature, and often don't cost a dime.

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However, there is one supplement that I personally take every day and that I do feel quite comfortable with suggesting for most individuals to experiment with. Because of couple of reasons. It's high safety profile and high rates of deficiencies in our modern society. Some put the numbers as somewhere around 80% of the population being deficient in this one area, and that is magnesium.

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So magnesium has been called the calming mineral, and some report that magnesium can increase gaba, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep. Magnesium also plays a key role in regulating our body's stress response system. Those with magnesium deficiency usually have higher anxiety and stress levels, which negatively impacts sleep as well.

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Now before you go out and buy a magnesium supplement, it's important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or they only have one to two forms of magnesium. When in reality, your body needs all seven forms of this essential sleep mineral. So that's why I recommend a product from my friends over at Bio Optimizers.

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They have created something called the Magnesium Breakthrough, and taking this magnesium before bed helps you relax and wake up, refresh and energize. And while we don't recommend that you go two nuts on looking at all the sleep stage classifications on all your wearables, I will share anecdotally that many clients have reported improvements in their deep sleep trend numbers.

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Again, I don't want you going nuts on the sleep stage classification numbers on your wearables, but I do wanna let you know about that because I know that many of you do reach out on questions of how to improve your deep sleep. So I also love that Bio Optimizers offers free shipping on select orders, and they offer a 365 day money back guarantee on all their products.

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Plus they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%. Very impressive. And you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, this is the same magnesium that I use every single night. And finally, you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, that's the magnesium supplement that I use every single night by going to www dot mag m a g.

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So mag breakthrough.com/sleep as a skill. And be sure to use the code sleep as a skill for 10% off. And welcome to the Sleep As a Skill Podcast, my guest today, maclan. Matt, thank you so much for joining us. You know, we've heard about each other from our mutual friend many times. I'm super excited to be here and anybody that's trying to teach the world how to sleep better is instantly an ally.

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So great to be here. Ah, well thank you so much for saying that. And yes, we have a great mutual friend that often is speaking fondly that I'm hearing about what you're up to from, and I'm just such a fan of some of the work that you're doing, particularly in the realm of sleep, and you have a really unique outlook on sleep and a really unique commitment and investment that you have made in sleep.

So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit with people, kind of your relationship with sleep and how that relates to some of the work you're doing now. . Yeah, it really started my twenties. So my twenties, I was an absolute workaholic and I was training people 80 hours a week in the gym and recording an album is studying marketing.

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And I was married and I was training twice a day. So I'm like, you know, I, I think I should reduce my sleep thinking that I would adapt just like you would from exercise. And it worked for a little bit. When I got down to five hours, it was getting a little bit touch and go. If I was dehydrated a little bit, if I ate the wrong thing, if I didn't work out, I, I'd crash.

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But when I got down to four hours, that was it. My body crashed. It took me about two months of sleeping, like nine, 10 hours to recover. I had really burned myself. . Then I read Power Sleep by James Moss. That was the first sleep book I read and it really turned my whole perspective around. I'm like, okay, I need to sleep eight, nine hours.

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I really, I got the science, I believed in it. Started doing that and then fast forward a few years, started tracking my sleep with the Zero. Not a lot of people remember the ze, but it was a predecessor to the OR Ring. It was a headband. We can talk about sleep trackers because the only way you can get accurate sleep data is to have an e, e G on your hip, your skull.

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So it was good. And then I bought the aura ring and then to my shock, I was only getting zero, 15 minutes of deep sleep a night. Coincided with the highest body VA reading I've ever had on a DEXA scan. My testosterone crashed to the low twenties and I just felt horrible and in general, I felt horrible.

Pretty much every day I woke up and I keep in mind I'm sleeping eight, nine hours a night. So it was kind of a major eureka moment. I realized the number one thing I can do. For my help, for my, on every level was to invest in my sleep, and that started me on the journey, which I've invested over $45,000 on sleep gadgets and mattresses and supplements and molecules and everything that I thought might have a little bit of a chance to improve my sleep.

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I've probably bought it and this has been a great journey and here we are. So happy to share whatever I've learned. Amazing. Well, one, I so acknowledge you for quickly. One, experimenting with your sleep, but two, really drawing the conclusion, what sounds like fairly quickly that this is an area to take seriously to experiment with.

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And you tried different approaches for the sounds of it, and then invested in various ways. So really excited to dive into this journey and then kind of understanding where you're at now and some of. Biggest takeaways, you've kind of garnered from all that. And yet at the same time, I love that you also touched on things like in order to get the most accurate sleep staging classifications that you do need certain types of trackers, just, you know, kind of demonstrating of that knowledge.

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Cause unfortunately a lot of people don't know these things and then they might get themselves fairly stressed out or upset when they're seeing certain numbers, when they're wearables, their BioTraps aura rings, their whoop bands, et cetera, et cetera. So really appreciate that. Maybe there's a a place to begin there.

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And since it sounds like that was kind of concerning for you, seeing the deep sleep readouts and kind of, how are you thinking about things like that now to assess the quality of your sleep? Yeah, I'm a big believer.  over time. If you can correlate your biofeedback, meaning how you feel with hard data, so the subjective biofeedback with the hard biofeedback, you'll develop a really good self-awareness.

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And if you've done that with body fat readings, I've done it with body temperature, I've done it with a lot of things over time and with sleep, I'd say I'm there where I can kind of guess pretty accurately where I'm at. And at this point, it's the subject. There's a lot of subjective data that you can look at.

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You know, did I wake up before the alarm? How good that I feel when I woke up? Like all of these things I think are as it poured, as the hard data. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about sleep trackers. , anything that's not an E E G at best is around 60% accuracy in terms of measuring the exact amount of deep and rem.

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Why is that? Because they're using secondary metrics, meaning they're looking at your movement, they're looking at your heart rate, they're looking at your heart rate variability, they're looking at body temp, and yeah, those are useful metrics, but the only way you can know where somebody's at is to literally be monitoring their brain waves, and then you can see exactly when they're into Delta stage four sleep, and you can see when they're coming out.

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You can see when they're in rem. All of those things are very accurate with a E E G. So if you go to a sleep lab, they're putting electrodes on your head. There was a company that released the headset called dream. Mm-hmm. , D R E E M. A few years ago I bought the version one and it was a lot better than the Aura ring.

Yeah. Now I talked to some neuroscientists. I talked to people that had the aura and the dream, and I was one of them.  and what we concluded was that it was very good at monitoring and measuring the total amount of deep and rem, but it sucked at separating and telling you the accurate numbers for deep and rem.

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So meaning that I've had people come up to me and say, Hey Matt, I'm getting five hours of REM and zero minutes of deep. I'm like, yeah, no, you're probably getting, you know, 60 to 90 minutes of deep in like three, three and a half hours of of rem. So for some people it seems to be more often than others, but I wanna be clear that I'm very pro over rang bios strap, like they're all great devices.

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Yeah, especially for your readiness score. So that is a direct measurement. You know, when you're looking at your heart rate variability, your heart rate, your wind, did your body temp drop, all of these things. , it's very good at measuring. Where's your nervous system at? Are you blown out? Did you catch a virus?

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Are you fighting an infection? So to me, that's very valuable data and the sleep data, if you're improving things, you'll see your numbers get better and better. So I'm a fan, but again, people need to take. Those, the green of salt and not get overly paranoid and stressed out when it's a little bit off.

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Yeah. Oh, so well said. And I've had a similar journey too with the ze way back when the dream had banned for me it would, the dream was particularly challenging with the long hair problem. . It would often find itself like half off me and what have you. And, but I'm so excited about these different iterations and evolution of these different wearables.

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Cause I think eventually we'll be able to have that interplay of just the compliance factor, the workability factor, and making these more user-friendly and kind of marrying the data that I love that you called out some of the. Really applicable data that we might be able to look and pay attention to on things like the OR ring or what have you, with the readiness indicators, those direct measurement readouts, like H R V, we do a lot of work with H R V optimization with people and how to use sleep optimization by means to improve those numbers.

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And, but not just for numbers sake, but for improving our reaction and our relationship to the world around us from our nervous system perspective, which is so fantastic. And certainly I know that you have done so much work, uh, in this area, both, you know, kind of biochemically as it relates to different supplements and things that can be utilized to help our response to our, you know, our nervous system response as well as some of these gadgets in Gizmo.

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And I'm sure people are gonna wanna know, what in the world did you spend $45,000 on? What does this look like? What worked, what didn't? So coming from that place now standing where you are today, I'm curious if you can kind of walk us. Through some of those things that you've felt have really made the difference and, you know, kind of helped guide people there.

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Yeah. The great news is, I'd say most of the most impactful things are the most affordable. Starting with light. Yes. So, you know, light really starts in the morning. Again, credit to Andrew Huberman, not for creating the sun, but making us aware of how important it is in the morning. Yeah, I think that's, that's a really, really big one.

I used to use the timers. Mm-hmm. So the timers are these $400 glasses that Yeah. Literally blast eyes with blue light and it worked incredibly well. Now I just go outside and, and we have a park in front of our buildings. I just go in the park and. , get some light, some movement, but light in the morning starts a timer in your body that will essentially make you feel more tired 14 to 16 hours later.

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So that's really important, and especially for people that want to try to wake up earlier or go to bed earlier. That's the number one thing is go through the pain of waking up. But just get some light in your eyes and we can talk about. Eliminate jet lag. I mean, that's the number one thing as well for eliminating jet lag is make sure you get a lot of light in the morning and can be a good time to use a little bit of melatonin as well for a couple of days.

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The second aspect of light is of course, managing light, but 90 minutes before your target bedtime. And I think having a target bedtime is a really important concept. Mm. Most people don't have that. They just go to bed when they're tired. Some people are really consistent and have a target bedtime in kudos to them, but a lot of people just, okay, I'm exhausted, or I'm passed down on the couch.

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Time to go to bed. But if you can start all your rituals and time them with your target bedtime, you're gonna get a much better sleep. So 90 minutes before you target bedtime, you got a few options. One, you can dim the lights for a few years I was wearing blue light block glasses. I don't do that unless I'm on planes.

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We can talk about planes a little bit. Sure. Cause I think there's, you need to get to some more hardcore solutions to sleep well on a plane, which I've finally cracked the coat on, which is great. Woohoo. , but you know, you can dim the lights, which is what I do. Now, I've hers people using salt lamps. Some people prefer using red light bulbs.

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So red light bulbs another option. Or you can wear blue light blocking glasses. All of those work. The point is you wanna really diminish the amount of light going into your eyes. Yeah, of course, you know, you can program your phone where it gets redder at night and your computer a low flux. It's a great app, yes, to make sure that the whole color palette's changing on your computer.

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So that's the second thing. And then of course, while you're sleeping, you wanna be in a absolute pitch black environment. Your skin has photo receptors. So for a while, a long time ago when it was getting horrible sleep, despite sleeping eight to nine hours, I was wearing a sleep. , which can cause your head to overheat.

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Mm. And you want your head to be one degree cooler than your body. So I'm not a fan of sleep mass for that reason. Yeah, I'm not. Cuz again, you still have photo receptors and your skin and your neck and sure if there's light hitting it, it's going to disrupt your melatonin production while you sleep. I don't advise that.

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So that's it. So that's light again, light in the morning, within 30 minutes, waking 90 minutes before bed, dim the lights or red li red light bulbs or use glasses. And then while you're sleeping, pitch black. The second big one is you want to be in a very cold environment. I mean, you basically wanna sleep in a cave, but for some of us, those of us that have fast metabolism, if you have a lot of muscle mass, if you're blessed with a fast metabolism, if you're a woman in premenopause or menopause, your body temp can.

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A problem underneath the sheets. Yeah, so again, back to when I was getting horrible sleep, I was overheating so much underneath the sheets and I was sleeping. It was 65, 67 degrees Fahrenheit in my bedroom. I was losing three to four pounds of water at night. Like that's how much I was sweating underneath the covers.

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And then I heard about the chili pad on a Tim Ferris podcast, and I bought that and has been an absolute game changer. So the best chili pad or the sleep eight, you know, there's a few options out there. I think they're, they're really, really powerful, especially if you tend to, to have a hot metabolism. So that's a little bit more of an investment, but it's minimal.

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The third big one is the mattress. Now the mattress can be obviously a more significant investment. I spend like six months researching every mattress.  and what I realized was, especially if you're a size sleeper, and we talk about sleep positions, because back sleepers have a major advantage here, if you're a back sleeper, you have the way more options for picking a mattress because you don't need to be sinking in as much as a size sleeper.

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The reason is that you want to basically try to even out the pressure from your head to your toes. You know, if you're a side sleeper, you have more weight on less surface area, which will cause blood flow to be constricted in your shoulders or in your hips. If you're a woman with wider hips or legs. If you have larger legs.

So if you're a back sleeper, obviously the surface area is far greater, you're, you get your whole back and both legs. So for those people you can sleep on a firmer mattress and you don't necessarily need. A memory foam mattress. But if you're a size sleeper, in my opinion, you almost need a memory foam mattress.

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So I spent six months looking at all the memory foam mattresses and settled on e Essentia, which is a Canadian company, and they use a tree sap to create the memory foam element.  and they have all of these different densities. So if you're a size sleeper, if you're heavier, you want to be sinking in more, meaning you want a softer mattress.

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If you're shorter, you wanna sink in more. And if you are wider, you wanna sink in more. Mm-hmm. , if you're taller, if you're lighter, and if you're narrower, then you want a denser mattress. So make sure you pick the right mattress for you. That's really critical. And they have custom made ones. So I spend 10 grand on my mattress and my wife's side is different than mine.

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So if I roll to my wife's side, it feels completely different. Mm-hmm. , because they create the optimal density for each zone of the body. So a huge fan of that. But there's so many matches companies and I. Say they're good or bad. There's just sure so many of them, but picking the right mattress makes a big, big difference.

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I'm not a fan of spring mattresses, and again, if you're a back sleeper, you've got more options. So those are all kind of the fundamentals. Yeah. Now a lot of people struggle with shutting their brain down. , you know, that's, if you, yes, you talk to anybody who's got struggle with falling asleep, it's typically cuz they have a hyperactive brain.

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And I've done, uh, eight weeks of neurofeedback. So I'm gonna give you kind of the neurofeedback electrical take on what's happening. And if you look at the literature on insomnia actors, two key things you'll see. One is they have hyperactive beta brain wave activity and beta brain waves are when you're in kind of daily living and, and when you have a lot of beta brain wave activity, you kind of have D h d hyperactive ideation.

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All of these things are natural consequences if you will, or side effects of high levels of beta brain. We have activity. So there's a couple of things you can do to help that. One of them is you want to take altheine and. PharmaGABA, which have both shown to decrease beta brain wave activity. And it does that by increasing alpha brain wave activity.

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And when you increase alpha brain wave activity, beta brain waves tend to decrease. So that can be very helpful for people that struggle with, you know, the hamster wheel, the monkey mine, whatever animal analogy you want to use. The second strategy is something I learned from one of my marketing mentors a long time ago, John Reese, and he called it brain dump.

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it's a great exercise. All you need is, you know, a notebook in a pen or a pencil or whatever you want to use, and you literally start writing every thought you have in your brain until you run out. So there's a few key rules here. You're not planning, you're not strategizing, you're not scheduling things.

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You literally just write every thought. Doesn't matter if it's an old memory, something you want to do, a project, something, somebody told you, your whatever comes to mind, you write it. And typically within like five to 10 minutes, , you've run out of ideas and at that point your brain will feel safer and you'll notice that your nervous system calms down.

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And I think we can circle back to nervous system in a minute. Yeah. Cause looking at sleep from a a nervous system management perspective is one of the best strategies. Right? Yeah. And back to people that are struggling with falling asleep, they're trapped typically. In fight, flight, freeze, right? They're in a sympathetic mode and they're struggling to downshift and move over to a parasympathetic mode.

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And there's, of course, there's some certain things we can do or take to help us with that. So hyperactive beta brain wave activity is definitely, I'd say most people's. You know, the people that can't fall asleep, that's their main issue. So anyway, I'll stop there to let you, uh, chime back. Ah, those are some main things.

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That was amazing. Yes. I think you just hit so eloquently on what we hear so often for people that just that frustration of just can't turn off my brain. It just keeps going. Oh my goodness. I love your verbiage on the nervous system management perspective, and I think that's just so, so key. And I'm curious too, since you clearly established, I think in this conversation, both financially and with the brain power and the things that you put towards sleep, like you have thought deeply about sleep, it's clear.

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So I'm curious in this quest to manage nervous system and then its results with sleep when, and we really haven't done a ton of episodes on this following topic, which is how to utilize. Particular molecules at particular times to garner the results that we're looking for with sleep, including managing that nervous system from a bigger perspective versus just like, okay, just tell me what I gotta sleep to take to fall asleep.

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Which is what a lot of people are asking. And yet you're speaking to something bigger of how to be managing our nervous system during daylight hours and into the evening, and then helping us to transition to not only fall asleep but stay asleep. So I'm wondering if you can help walk us through that, like what you have seen there, what you've taken the time to develop and get out to the masses.

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Yeah. Most people's strategy starts in the morning with coffee, which obviously increases. Yeah, cortisol, adrenaline nor adrenaline, you know, it's a bit of a stimulant, obviously removes the perception of fatigue. So it's very effective and most people are familiar with that. Of course, be aware, some people are slow caffeine metabolizers, and I really believe something we didn't mention is there are certain genes.

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That make people worse sleepers or better sleepers. Sure. And I'm genetically disadvantaged for sleep. Mm-hmm. Showed up in my jeans and I kind of figured it cuz my father has struggled with sleep forever and our products have been a real game changer for him, which is absolutely awesome. Awesome. So again, some people just can fall asleep anywhere and get incredible deep sleep and REM sleep and some people are just more sensitive and need to hyper optimize everything.

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I'm more on that side. Yeah. So yeah, back to nervous system management. I, I truly believe that nervous system management is one of the most powerful things anybody can do to improve the quality of their lives. Improve their experience of reality. Yes. Because I've certainly spent probably the majority of my life on the other side of that, which was.

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there was only at one speed go, you know, and burning out on a quarterly basis was a strategy. Being just in a hyperactive, hyper intense mode was the only gear I knew, and it certainly caused me a lot of unnecessary suffering. So over time I've learned that if I can shift my nervous system throughout the day, allow myself some, some time to downshift and then re-up shift, and then at night, especially, you know, downshift my brain and, and yes.

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We'll, we'll get back to molecules cause part of it. But let's just start with again, some lifestyle things people can do. Yeah. Love it. So back to sun in the morning, it not only helps sink your clock, but it will increase dopamine and serotonin and earlier in the day, from a neurochemical perspective.

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Dopamine, adrenaline, cortisol, noad, adrenaline. These are great molecules to have, you know, they, they engage you, they focus you, they give you drive. And then on the back half of the day, it's better to focus on increasing GABA and some other molecules that we'll get back into. So there's certain neurochemicals that are better earlier in the day and some that are better at night.

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And of course, if you're drinking caffeine and other stimulants on the back half of the day, you're gonna be compromised typically when you sleep. But one of the big things that I literally did this before we, we hopped on, is nons sleep deep breaths, which is something I, I've been doing for a long, long time, even before I heard the name.

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Like I, I prefer that over meditation. Hmm. I prefer that over napping. I've never been a napper. And for people that don't know what that means, it means that you're literally, , you close your eyes, which better when you close your eyes, your alpha brain waves double instantly, which is great. So you're, mm, yes.

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Like you know, if you have electrodes in your brain, close your eyes. If your alpha brain waves. , it doesn't double. You've got issues. So there's some instant brain benefits to just closing your eyes. And then you're not trying to nap, you're not trying to meditate. You're essentially just being, you know, it's the best way I can explain it.

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Yeah. And you're not trying to stop your thoughts, like you're just not trying to do anything. And if your thoughts are racing, just let them race. And just some non, some guided non-slip deep breaths, audios, you can get out there, but finding whatever works for you, whether it's napping or meditation or non-slip deep breaths, or going for a walk in the park or playing with your pets or playing, I've got a nine month old baby girl.

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All of those things throughout the day, you know, will increase, especially if you're playing with your daughter or your p, you know, you'll increase your oxytocin, which is, you know, a powerful parasympathetic molecule. So anything you can do to, you know, be in nature, be with loved ones, rest, and you only need maybe twice, like two little.

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Periods a day of that. It's, it's really powerful and it's easy for me for an example to go from one zoom call to the next, to the next. Yeah. And back to beta brainwaves, there's some data that came out a few weeks ago, which I was, I needed to see that cuz I've experienced it. Mm. And what it showed was if you didn't take any breaks and you just went from one meeting to the next, to the next, to the next, any predictions on what happens on a brain level?

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Oh, I would say a lot of activity, A lot of, uh, , frazzled mess, I'd imagine. Yeah. Your beta brain waves just keep getting higher and higher. Yeah. And higher. And what happens when your beta brain waves are just kind of chronically elevated over time? It literally wears your brain out. Yeah. And I've been there.

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I mean, and if you watch your brain put electrodes in your brain, you'll see that your brain's essentially fried.  and there's a cost to that. So just taking these little breaks throughout the day, followed by movement. So here's the formula for managing your nervous system and staying energized. So I did the non-slip deep breath.

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I only need like eight, 10 minutes and then I, I'm good. And then I did a sprint up the stairs. So we have like four floors here. I did that and I find the combination of resting a little bit followed by movement is incredible. You basically rest, relax, kind of reset the brain, shift your nervous system, and then get blood flow going, energize the body a little bit, and then boom.

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I'm, I'm ready to go. Just as a quick aside, I'm probably gonna be adding in a bit more of that before my podcast, my stack was, I did methylene blue hydrogen tablets and Keone Esthers, but I could have added in a little bit more. So I think I'm gonna start doing that. And certainly the non-slip deep breath protocols throughout the day.

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What I've been doing has been a lot of brain tap lately, but I oscillate test different things. Newcomb different or just, just be, I love what you said about just the closing the eyes. I've done that during different conferences, you know, when you can't necessarily get away for extended period of time. I, I've told so many people this where there's moments where I'll literally just like go into the bathroom and I'll go into like the close the stall and just close my eyes just cuz I don't have enough time to go back to the whatever.

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And just the closing of the eyes can be enough to almost give that second wind. Now obviously if you have more time, we wanna bring that in, but the ways to carve out those pockets, it's so valuable. I really appreciate you walking us through that. Yeah, no, absolutely. And then on the molecule side, I mean, we could do multi, I know you had Mr.Noon and, you know, he's, he's been a, a big mentor for us.

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 Of course we have Utopia. Yes. So ideally, Your stack in the morning will give you some coal for focus, and then depending on kind of what gear you want to be on, obviously we have products that are more intense that'll really get you hyper-focused and energized for eight to 12 hours.

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So you want to take your stronger neutropics in the morning, but in the afternoon. There's other neutropics like brain flow that are a little more mild. Mm-hmm. And not as hardcore. Now, if you're getting a little fried, then things like adaptogens and magnesium are really powerful. We have a new adaptogen formula coming out in May.

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It's my favorite adaptogen blend ever. It's been an absolute game changer. It is the most experiential adaptogen blend I've ever tried. It gives you a level of resilience that I've never felt from a supplement, like the magnesium relaxes you. Mm. This gives you resilience and if you're a little fried or worn, it brings you back.

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That's, um, a really good kind of mid-afternoon. And then at night, that's when you want to try to increase your gaba, relax your nervous system. Obviously taking a couple of capsules of magnesium breakthrough an hour before bed is awesome. Back to Altheine and PharmaGABA, which we used in our new product called Sleep Breakthrough.

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Yes. Those are really powerful for. Again, increasing off of brainwaves, decreasing better brain waves, and you relaxing your brain and body without causing drowsiness. Mm-hmm. Which is really what our goal was. We wanted something that enhanced sleep, but didn't give you that lingering drowsiness in the morning.

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Some other great molecules like glycine. So I really believe that glycine is one of the most important amino acids in general for health. I think most people are significantly deficient. I'd say 10 to 20 grams a day is probably optimal. And glycine does incredible things from collagen production to helping detox certain aspects of the body.

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But in the context of sleep, first of all it drops body temperature, which is a really cool thing. So in terms of improving sleep, and you know, just as a little side note, some of the best deep sleep I've ever had, Came after doing an ice bath before bed. Mm. And I've talked to other people that have done that and I think it just kind of kickstarts that downshifting in core body temp and then, you know, kind of like shifting down or turning down the lights.

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It really enhances sleep typically. And if you look at the sleep literature, a warm bath or a hot bath also improves sleep. Yeah. I think it's for very different reasons, but warm bath or nice baths seem to be a great idea. But on the glycine front, um, yes, an incredible molecule also improves rem and my favorite part of glycine is that if you don't get enough sleep the next day, you will still feel more refreshed than if you didn't use it.

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Mm. So it's really good for that. You know, why does magnesium help sleep? So, Because if we've had thousands and thousands of people, you know, send us their testimonials for magnesium breakthrough, the reason is that magnesium is a precursor to serotonin and serotonin's, a precursor to melatonin. Now, in general, I am much a much bigger fan of giving the body the raw materials, the natural materials it needs to.

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the molecule that we want compared to taking exogenous forms. And that's true for testosterone and in my opinion, it's true for melatonin. And yes, in some cases you need to take the exogenous form cuz maybe your body's not producing those things. But magnesium's a great precursor and one of the things that we do, that we spend a lot of time on is like what are the co-factors we can add that will enhance the conversion?

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Mm-hmm.  And people are not aware enough of the power of co-factors. So I'll give you some data that I literally just saw this morning from our team. Oh cool. So we're testing right now in the lab. You know what happens when you combine magnesiums and expose them to red blood cells? We want to track and show that there is synergy.

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And first of all, there is, when you combine magnesiums, you get more uptake in the red blood cells. , which is awesome. Mm. And then the second thing is when we added P five P or a b6, we got 30 to 40% more absorption in the red blood cells. So you know, when you're talking about co-factors, you're talking about huge improvements in the effectiveness of a formula.

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So that is why we did magnesium. We added magnesium, bisg, glycenate, which has the best data on. And sleep research. And then we added the, the P five P to help maximize that conversion. But as a side note, uh, one thing we didn't cover is that if you eat a big meal two or three hours before bed, you'll destroy your steep sleep almost guarantee.

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I was gonna ask you what your kind of strategy was, if you find yourself doing that. We have so many people that want support with that piece or Yeah. I'm curious how you approach that one. Yeah. It'll destroy your deep sleep. I mean, it's just clear, like I've never seen it, not with myself, with clients, like I've never seen it not obliterate deep sleep.

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Yeah. And obviously there's a couple reasons. One, when you eat, there's a rise in body temperature. , you know, for several hours. So if you eat, your body's gonna struggle to cool down. Obviously blood flow goes to the stomach digestive area. So there's all kinds of issues that'll disrupt your sleep. What can you eat before bed?

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Yeah. So let's get to that because back to what I said earlier, if you increase your serotonin, you'll get better sleep. And what increases serotonin? What carbohydrates do. . I've heard a lot of people say, yeah, I use a teaspoon of honey, I get better sleep. And I've tested that many times, many ways. I typically do it with fruits.

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Mm-hmm. . But if you do like 10 grams ish of a relatively refined carbohydrate, again, I prefer fruits. Some people like honey. Mm-hmm. , you'll typically increase serotonin and get better sleep because of it. Mm-hmm. So that's one thing. Amino acids are not a problem because your body's gonna absorb those in 30 to 45 minutes.

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So amino acids, and again, refining carbohydrates are not an issue. And ideally, again, you have a nice hearty dinner and don't eat for three to four hours. Some people even say five hours, depends on the person. But you don't wanna get a bed starving either. Here's some good news, if you have the habit of eating before bed, and my father had that habit full in time, which of course didn't help his sleep.

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Yeah. If you stop that habit, you're going to be experiencing hunger for maybe.  a week-ish. Yep. And then your body will adapt and shift its grelin response. So give yourself a week. And then the hunger, the grelin, the gremlins will, will disappear. . That's the gist on food and maximizing serotonin for Ah, that's so good.

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And well, the food one, cause I was particularly curious on that topic with you, cuz wondering when you find yourselves, particularly maybe it's like travel or social obligations, and if you do find that you're eating later, do you stack things like digestive enzymes or any, is there anything that you bring in that you found to make much of a difference?

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Or is it just sort of like, okay, you just chalk it up to it's gonna be a rough night? I'm glad you I love you. You asked that question . So for a long time, for a long, long time, we had people and Wade and I tried it many times. Yeah. Where we would take mass science before bed and it improves sleep. Like we've had so many people over the years tell us, Hey, I take two to three mask times before bed.

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I take P three Oman, I'll circle back to that cuz that one's a little bit different. Sure. And they reported better sleep and I did understand the mechanism until a few years ago and I'm like, okay, yeah, it's, it's helping clear out the food. So Absolutely. That's a great strategy. Okay. But let's circle back to P three oh m.

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Yeah. So as I mentioned, you know, we have a lab with 20 brilliant people doing nonstop experiments at the Birch University in Sierra.  and we bought this half million dollar machine called an H P O C machine that allows us to measure the molecules, the neurotransmitters that the probiotics are producing.

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Hmm. So we've been measuring, like we've measured the neurochemical production of every probiotic that's commercially available, including ours. And the cool thing is P three oh M, which is one of our products, has the highest GABA output of any probiotic we tested. And again, GABAs we mentioned earlier, it's great for sleep and it peaks eight hours later.

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So if you eat P three o m or take P three o m with your dinner, by the time you're in bed, you'll basically be producing a, a decent, healthy amount of GABA through your, in, in your intestinal tract while you're sleeping. So yeah, it's a really good sleep molecule or sleep product. And again, it's kind of a, of an indirect sleep molecule.

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But it's great, you know, P three M and maam certainly is a great hack if you're going to be eating in suboptimal times. Ah, well I so appreciate that cuz that's a big one for me. Trend and I have a lot of clients experiment with things like, you know, circadian rhythm, intermittent fasting or early timer restricted feeding.

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And so that they're having their last bite of food. You know, always the aim to be before sunsets, ideally, if not sometimes even earlier, if they're doing certain other protocols or strategies. And so then when you find yourself in just normal society, when people are having the, you know, 7:30 PM dinner meetup and you don't get the food out till eight whatever, 15 or something, it's a whole other response and you know, experience of your sleep.

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So I appreciate to know some of those things that people might be able to use. That's great. Now I'm actually curious to shift to how you are managing all of your things with your sleep today, which I'm sure just hearing you speak, I'm sure this will continue to evolve and it'll probably keep shifting and whatever.

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But for right now,  in 2023, what would you say your nightly sleep routine is looking like right now? What can we learn from, from that? . Yeah. It starts with TV and TV's interesting because TV actually slows down your brainwave and gets you into an alpha brainwave state. Yeah. So I like watching tv. I like, I like entertainment , I like movies.

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I like show good shows. Yeah. So typically like maybe three hours for my target bedtime, which is around midnight, around nine, I'll start watching something with my wife. Sure. And you know, that helps me downshift my brain, which is a good thing. , obviously my, my phone and computer goes to do not disturb at 9:00 PM so I'm not getting hit with messages.

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Yeah. And again, at this time it's like you wanna manage it and, and minimize dopamine, adrenaline nor John Cortisol. Yeah. So that's a really big deal. I'll dim all the lights as I mentioned earlier. So it was great. Now you can automate all that. I mean, home kit or Google Home and all these, these different systems you can literally program.

And then also with the light bulbs, there's hue light bulbs and all these light bulbs where you can program them to shift tones and go to a, a red tone or whatever, you know, a red, a red light bulb essentially. So there's a lot of ways to basically make this automated and I'm a big fan of automating things, so it just happening in the background.

I don't have to think about it, but yeah, I dim all the lights. And then typically around like last night, like 10 30.  is when I take my sleep stack, which is, this has been consistent now for almost a year cuz we were prototyping sleep breakthrough, two caps of magnesium breakthrough and then two scoops of sleep breakthrough.

And then that'll hit me within 45 minutes. And then I want to go to bed, which is great, and go downstairs and brush my teeth. And then I always pre chill the room. So like I, I turn on the AC in my bedroom like three, four hours. Like I want, I wanna walk in and it's just like, ah, it feels like an ice box, you know?

Totally. So I pre chill the bedroom, I go in, but do I sleep in a fairday cage? Looks like a mosquito net, which did not really improve my sleep for the record. Yes, I've heard you say that. Yeah. I think some people are more sensitive to E MF than others. Mm-hmm. , I don't seem to be that sensitive. Sure. And of course I have no wifi units in my bedroom.

Right. And the walls where I live are all cement so nice. Even though there's emf, I think the strength of the signals is very weak. Mm-hmm. . And then we have another sleep product called Dream Optimizer, which is a spray. I'll use that and I'm, I'm gonna give you kind of my latest version of the system.

Okay, great. So something, a pattern that I noticed over the years, and again, I've been tracking my sleep for almost a decade now, is that some nights it seemed like my body wants to emphasize deep sleep and Okay. I'd say on days where, , I squatted. Did deadlifts like, yeah. Something physically strenuous. And then there's other days where it seems like my brain wants to get more rem.

Mm-hmm. . So if I'm doing brain training or worked hard or, or did some emotional work, like it just seems the brain wants more rem So something that I'm doing now is do I need more deep, like, did I train hard today? Did I squat? Did I lift weights? Okay. I won't use Dream Optimizer I'll, I'll just use the magnesium and the sleep breakthrough.

And on other days I'll use. Dream optimizer to push my REM up to get more REM and to make the REM more intense. So that's the other thing of rem. It's not just the quantity, but there's quality, there's intensity. It's the same thing with deep sleep. If the amplitude of your Delta brain waves is higher, you'll actually get.

More powerful recovery. And darpa, who's the, the military research, uh, branch did some really interesting research where they were tracking people's sleep and when they hit Delta, they would pulse these delta waves to increase the amplitude and they noticed that they learned better and the original dream had that feature built in.

But unfortunately, in my opinion, and this is something not to invest in all the P E M F devices Mm. Have been hit or miss, like none of them Sure. Consistently improved sleep. I do not advise any P M F device to enhance sleep. The only one that that was good was the Delta Sleeper. You would stick it on your brachial nerve.

Mm-hmm.  hit a button and it would pulse for 15 minutes and then turn off. That made sense because it wasn't like pulsing all night long. The ones that Sure. Kind of work all night long again. Some nights you feel better than the other nights I just felt wrecked. So yeah, that's the gist. You know, and then I, I usually fall asleep incredibly quickly and I typically sleep all night long now.

One of the great uses of Dream Optimizer is for people that do wake up at night, it, you just do a couple more sprays and go back to bed and then you'll get a, another good sleep cycle out of it. So it's really good for that. And then I typically wake up at eight, go to the park and start my day. Okay. Two quick questions about the evening piece.

I've heard you mention in the past ways of thinking about potassium and sodium and potentially kind of having uh, different ways that you might think about that in the evening. And I'm curious if you can share, cause I know a lot of people are doing different electrolytes and lots of salt in there, water and different things at night, and I'm curious your thoughts on that piece.

Yeah. So for our credit to Mr. Nutz for saying we need potassium and sleep breakthrough, and I'm a huge fan of, of potassium, and as a side note, almost everyone's deficient in potassium. Like the optimal dose is almost around five grams and almost no one's hitting that. And if you're in a ketogenic diet, forget about it.

You're definitely deficient because potassium obviously is rich. There's a lot of potassium, potatoes, and bananas, stuff like that. And people are taking massive amounts of sodium and there's nothing wrong with that. The issue is there is a imbalance of sodium potassium anyways. Okay. . So as I got into literature on potassium around sleep, I found this really interesting research from, I think it was 2004, where they were studying the effects of sodium potassium on odd mutant flies.

Mm. And they found that sodium excited, their neurons and potassium quieted them down. Mm-hmm. And that was really an interesting, almost like an interesting circadian clock there, just a potassium sodium clock. And I've been a huge super fan of putting Himalaya salt in my water in the morning and drinking that.

And it's, yeah, it's just great for hydration and it's great for the brain. Now, at night, you should be shifting again. You might have some salt at your dinner, but there is a salt, I think it's called New Salt. Mm. Where it's a potassium chloride salt and my advice is use that for dinner. And of course we have potassium in sleep breakthrough, so that it's great for that.

But yeah, any, again, when you're getting down to your dinner or anything posed dinner, potassium is, is the key. And here's the other benefit of potassium for people that tend to wake up at night and go to the bathroom, usually. You can minimize and maybe eliminate that completely once you get your potassium levels and balance with your sodium levels.

Mm-hmm. Cause you'll tend to, to urinate two or three times more if your sodium to potassium ratios are off.  and everybody, I experience that all the time. If I drink too much water and I have too much sodium and not a potassium, I'll be going to the bathroom a lot. But all I need to do is just crank my potassium levels and then I'm just not going as much.

I'm more hydrated. So potassium's just a great. Mineral for sleep. Some other minerals for sleep. Obviously we talked about magnesium. Sure, zinc is amazing. Zinc is great for the nervous system. Zinc is also a co-factor for the production of melatonin and it helps calm the nervous system. And the last one is calcium.

So calcium also boosts re, it's a co-factor to convert the trip tofa into serotonin. And again, it's just a really good kind of calming mineral. So those are the four minerals that we have in in sleep Break. So good. And thanks again about the potassium, sodium callouts, particularly for the number of people.

I would say hands down, the thing that we get asked about the most is around wake-ups and how to minimize wake-ups. And I'm going to the bathroom all the time, should I check my prostate? Like all of these things. And so I so appreciate that kind of callouts. So that could be an area that people could really look to to ensure that there's balance there.

And then you started to share some of the things that you do in your morning, which is our second question, which is, what is your morning sleep routine? And we say that on purpose with the thinking that how we set up our day and particularly the start of our day can impact our sleep. So curious to hear what that all looks like.

Yeah, so wake up, I usually do a little bit of red light and meditate for like 10, 10, 15 minutes. And then I have a park, as I mentioned. Yep. So go to the park.  and then there's a great set of stairs. I'll run two to four cycles of the stairs, just enough to, to sort of sweating a little bit, come back, play with my daughter.

So, so at that point I've got dopamine, serotonin, endorphins. And then when I play with my daughter, I get oxytocin. So I've got amazing natural neurochemically enhanced stack going on. And then I pick my neutropic for the day. So I look at my schedule and figure. , when do I need to time, which neutropic. So today did podcast, so I took a brain flow and then I'm drinking Nectar X and every day pretty much I, I mix cogen.

Yeah. Which is a chocolate collagen, hyper concentrated mushroom blend. I mix that with coffee and then, yeah, and I start my day and then I just get hyper-focused and you know, go till four and go work out and then do my evening routine, which I'll work a little bit usually after dinner, and then watch TV and do my sleep rituals and go to bed and rinse and repeat.

So, so good. And I love that morning kind of rocky routine of the stairs and the sunlight and the whole thing. That's fantastic. Love that. So the third question would be, what is on your nightstand? Or it could be your proverbial nightstand if you're traveling apps, gadgets, gizmos, anything that we might see.

Dream optimizer. Yeah, and I do have my, my red light mask as well, but I use that one in the morning. But a dream optimizer in, let's talk about taking melatonin. Yeah, please. So remember neuro scientist told me this like eight years ago and he was right. So when you take melatonin, you want to be in a pitch black environment.

Light destroys melatonin in near real time. So, , if you're taking melatonin again, go in bed, turn off the lights, and then take your melatonin. But here's my current opinion in melatonin. If you look at how much melatonin your brain actually produces, it's 10 to 80 micrograms. Hmm. So when I looked at that, I'm like, why are people taking like even half a milligram, that's 500 micrograms.

I'm like that. That's still 20 to 50 times a natural amount. It just didn't make sense and that never worked for me. Some people have genetic variant that causes them to wake up two or three hours earlier than normal, and I've always been one of these people, however, You know, now that I'm using 40 to 80 micrograms, I'm not getting that wake up effect and I'm sleeping great and it's getting me all the benefits and more.

So that's how we've designed Dream Optimizer. We're like, okay, how can we give people the ability to, to dial in the optimal dose for their brains, their bodies? And we decided that a spray was the only way, cuz a pill is too hard to try to break it and you know, all the stuff. So yeah, it's like 18 micrograms per spray, which allows you to just get the exact amount that you need, uh, for your brain and body.

So I, yeah, it's the only thing on my Bedstand really is Dream Optimizer. And again, I use it probably about three, four days a week. Again, to really boost my REM during those nights or if I've stayed up. And one, one thing we didn't mention Mm. I think is really, I. If you stay awake past your target bedtime, 30 to 45, maybe 60 minutes, you will get a second win.

The second win is your body producing cortisol, which is gonna absolutely destroy your deep sleep. Almost as bad as eating. Yeah. So, and that's where the saying one hour of sleep. Before midnight is worth two hours. It's really one hour of sleep before your target bedtime or around your target bedtime is worth two.

If you go past that and you get that cortisol response, it will annihilate the quality of your sleep. And sometimes that happens. I mean, you go out with friends, you know you're traveling. All kinds of things can happen. So I like using melatonin when that happens. Just to try to really. Try to shut down my brain and, and get me to fall asleep faster.

Otherwise, I might just be ideating and, and thinking about things. So yeah, those are some, some good times to use. Uh, melatonin again, lights off. Have it next to your bed, and that's, that's when and how you want to use it. Yes, so good. I so appreciate you calling that out. And so many people casually go to melatonin without really considering deeply like you all have around the dodging of melatonin.

That makes sense. And then the how. I haven't seen a lot of people speak to that with such specificity around ensuring that you're in a dark environment and it is known as the vampire hormone for a reason. The hormone of darkness. I've never heard that one. I love that. Yeah. Isn't that a cool one? I love that thing.

I hormone of darkness with the vampire hormone and it would beck ends to have darkness around you. And then to also be responsible for all of the little shots of bright light that might happen in our environment. The going into the refrigerator, the going into the bathroom, the, all these things and what that can do to just kind of be counterproductive to our goals.

I really appreciate that. And then finally, our last question is what has made Matt, especially you, given that you've invested over $45,000 in your sleep and optimizing him and thought deeply and have a company that also really takes sleep really seriously. And we're really grateful for you over here.

You're been a sponsor for the podcast and you know, I use your magnesium breakthrough and, and the sleep formula and the spray and all the things consistently. So I'm very curious, your answer too, what has made the biggest difference to your sleep game or maybe the biggest aha moment in managing your sleep thus far?

Yeah, I have to say the chili pad and the sleep stacks. Yep. Because. . You know, when I travel, tra travel's a great barometer because obviously you're in a foreign mattress and you know, you get the body temperature issues. And when I think about what's causing me to wake up or what's disrupting my sleep the most when I travel, it's my body temperature getting too high underneath the sheets.

That being said, what's great about the sleep stacks? Like, you know, when I go to LA to go work with Wade, I was just there last week and I take the red eye back. I've been able to get really, really good sleep. Of course, I typically fly business class, so that helps a little bit cuz the. You know, you get better, better seats.

But tip number one is get the true dark glasses from Dave Asprey. The red ones. Yeah, you need something. That's the one time I wear the glasses cuz yeah, there's so much blue light and light, so bright and the red ones are the best, like they're the strongest ones in my opinion, to definitely to really block that out.

So, so I put those on and then like an hour before the, I get on the plane, it's the mag, it's the sleep breakthrough. And then as soon as I, I'm in the plane in my seat, I'll Blossom Dream optimizer and it's working incredibly well to help me fall asleep. And then typically the stewards have to wake me up when we, before we land to get me to snap out of it.

So yeah, I was working really, really well. So amazing som getting like. A good night's sleep, obviously not as good as if I'm in my bed. But yeah, the molecules are great because I would say it'll transform a bad night to a good night, a good night, to a great night, and then a great night to an awesome, awesome like world class night.

But, um, you know, if anybody's listening, it's in the real estate, uh, hospitality space. Please. Give us hyper optimize sleep environments. We will pay a premium. I will pay a premium for a chili pad, a great mattress. Like I need that. So same. Oh, I'm so glad you closed with that because 110%, I am such a stand for that.

And I love that you spoke to the temperature piece and the young bloods over there, A chili sleeper doing some incredible well now and added to the sleep me, uh, are doing incredible things and it's wild. The difference, and I love what you said about travel being that barometer because when you leave your setup, your environment that you got going on, that you've optimized for, and then you go to these, it's hot, you're waking up multiple times.

It's just all of these things and all these variables that just really have, you have that level of gratitude for things like the products that they're making. . And I also like how there's theories of hearkening it back to, despite it maybe landing for some people is like, come on dude, really need to have this fancy, you know, cooling mattress topper and all these things.

But then if we, there's certain theories that that would actually be more akin to how we likely slept in nature, you know, thousands of years ago on the ground, which would've been the coolest, uh, place in the environment or coolest spot. And then we would've stayed likely very cool. Throughout the course of the night, there's even an argument that maybe that's why we feel more at ease or comfortable when we have the weighted blankets.

Maybe it was like hides or heavy, you know, coverings for us to stay warm on that cold  surface. So all of these things, it's almost as if we're rewilding and trying to bring in some of those cues that are biologically hardwired into our modern lifestyle. So I really agree with those and I love that you bring all of that into flights and travel and the true dark to such a good call out.

So amazing. And so Matt, did we leave anything out or do you think we hit on most of the major topics or things that are top of mind for you with sleep and sleep optimization? I mean, we hit the major stuff, so Yeah. Yeah. We've, we've given all your listeners a, a special discount if you go to sleep breakthrough.com/sleep is a scale yes, you can get 10% off.

And again, all of our products are covered by 365 day, no questions asked, money back guarantee. We have the best guarantee in the business and I believe probably one of the lowest refund rates in the industry cuz our products work. So if there's any issues, hit us up and we're always trying to improve our products.

We're already working on sleep Breakthrough 2.0, we find a new molecule that's really, really fascinating. So we're building an another version for the UK cuz GABA is illegal there.  and I'd say it's working differently. So we took the pharma G out, we're adding this new molecule and it's extending sleep.

So for people that are, that wanna sleep longer, this UK version, which we'll probably release as a second flavor and a different option on our site, is working really, really well to help people sleep. Like if you wanna sleep like eight and a half, nine hours, this is the formula for sure. Wow. Exciting. All right, well we'll have to stay tuned for new developments in the the second version coming out and for international possibilities, it's amazing and just, yeah, thank you so, so much.

And so thanks for making that code. We're gonna make sure that we include that in our show notes. You all have been excellent sponsors of the podcast. We've spoken to Magnesium for quite some time, and now we're introducing everyone into these newer iterations and this exciting possibility to have these stacks for people that really want to mindfully.

Improve their sleep and then but thoughtfully so that they're not now having these stacks that maybe could have counterproductive things at play. You know, lots of heavy dosing of melatonin or what have you, and potentially shooting themselves in the foot. I know that you all have taken great, gone to great lengths to create something not only for the masses but for yourselves as well, which I think is like one of the best reasons to create some of these things cuz it just really shows the level of care and attention to details.

So fantastic work. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here and looking forward to more to come. Yeah, thanks for having me. And again, keep preaching about sleep. I wish, you know, if you ask me like, what's up Matt? You got a magic button? You could push that button. Anything would happen. I would push.

And what would happen is awareness of all of these things such as sleep, health, would be pushed to the minds of everyone. Because really I think the issue for the most part is a lack of awareness of, yeah, the power and the importance of these things.  and for E, even people that are sleeping well, my message is there is another level and my advice and suggestion is go get it.

Yes. Oh man. Mic drop. I love it. Ah, preaching to the choir. That is fantastic. We'll probably take that sound bite right on out. , that was like amazing. Send it out to the masses. We gotta get that message out. I couldn't agree more. Ah, well thank you for the work that you're doing to hopefully inspire the masses to really get that commitment and really just appreciate you.

Awesome. Thanks. You've been listening to The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast, the number one podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out something that I call Mollie's Monday Obsessions containing everything that I'm obsessing over in the world of sleep. Head on over to sleep as a skill.com to sign up.

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