103: Shawn Wells, Biochemist, Dietitian and Formulator: "A New & Better Caffeine Is Here - And The Rumor Is It Doesn't Mess With Your Sleep?!"

Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie McGlocklin, and I own a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts, ranging from doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper.

Let's jump into your dose of practical sleep training.

Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill Podcast. First off, don't mind the audio. I'm actually traveling right now, so the mic is a little funky, but it will get better in the rest of this episode. So I wanna tell you about today's guest. Sean Wells is a good friend of mine and he is actually coming on the podcast for the second time.

And the reason for today's visit is because he is gonna tell us about what could actually be a new disruptor in one of the world's favorite drugs. Caffeine, a new potential ingredient that he has discovered that he is behind. I've had the pleasure of experimenting with and many others as well. It has recently come to market and it's gonna be coming out in an even bigger fashion very soon.

So we want you to be the first to know. And why on a podcast around sleep? Well, we are likely aware of some of the negative impacts that the wrong timing of caffeine. You know, the timing of when you have your caffeine, how that might negatively impact your sleep, particularly if you have a high volume of that caffeine.

And for one of the reasons being its impact on adenosine while pyrazine, this new ingredient has a different effect in that domain. So we're gonna get in deeper on that topic, so get excited. But first I wanna tell you a little bit about Sean Wells. He is known as the world's leading nutritional biochemist and expert on health optimization.

He has formulated over 700 supplements, food, beverages, and patented 20 novel ingredients. He's now known as the ingredient, the scientist of ingredients As a world renowned thought leader on mitochondrial health, he has been paid to speak on five different continents. His insights have been prominently featured in documentaries and podcasts like Ben Greenfield and Regularly on Mourning television.

His expertise can help any health conscious individual to better manage stress and experience greater resilience and more energy through utilizing his practical research backed solutions. His book, the Energy Formula, has been recognized by both U S A today and Forbes, as well as an Amazon bestseller in multiple categories.

So I get a lot of questions around sleep supplements, and I'm very hesitant to just throw out a whole laundry list of possibilities. One, I don't think it's the most responsible thing to do. I really do believe in testing to see what types of supplements make sense for you. And two, because I really truly believe that most of the things that you can do to improve your sleep are behavioral, psychological, environmental in nature, and often don't cost a dime.

However, there is one supplement that I personally take every day and that I do feel quite comfortable with suggesting for most individuals to experiment with because a couple of reasons. It's high safety profile and high rates of deficiencies in our modern society. Some put the numbers as somewhere around 80% of the population being deficient in this one area, and that is magnesium.

So magnesium has been called the calming mineral, and some report that magnesium can increase gaba, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep. Magnesium also plays a key role in regulating our body's stress response system. Those with magnesium deficiency usually have higher anxiety and stress levels, which negatively impacts sleep As.

Now before you go out and buy a magnesium supplement, it's important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or they only have one to two forms of magnesium. When in reality, your body needs all seven forms of this essential sleep mineral. So that's why I recommend a product from my friends over at Bio Optimizers.

They have created something called the Magnesium Breakthrough, and taking this magnesium before bed helps you relax and wake up, refresh and energize. And while we don't recommend that you go two nuts on looking at all the sleep stage classifications on all your wearables, I will share anecdotally that many clients have reported improvements in their deep sleep trend numbers.

Again, I don't want you going nuts on the sleep stage classification numbers on your wearables, but I do wanna let you know about that because I know that many of you do reach out on questions of how to improve your deep sleep. So I also love that bio optimizers offers free shipping on select orders, and they offer a 365 day money back guarantee on all their products.

Plus they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%. Very impressive. And you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, this is the same magnesium that I use every single night. And finally, you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, that's the magnesium supplement that I use every single night by going to www dot mag m a g.

So mag breakthrough.com/sleep as a skill and be sure to use the code sleep as a skill for 10% off. And welcome to the Sleep is a skilled podcast. I am so grateful to my guest here today. I can already tell this is gonna be a ridiculous podcast. Sean Wells needs no introduction, and yet we are gonna, Mollie McGlocklin.

We've got lots of, uh, lots of banter going on here, so this is gonna be hysterical, but at the same time, I'm laughing, I'm playing, and yet I know that this is gonna just be a powerhouse interview of a ton of information for you guys in the realm of improving your sleep, optimizing your sleep, any stage of the game in your sleep journey.

Sean has the goods. So, Sean, without further ado, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Hey, what's going on, Molly? I'm excited to be here like. , like I've been doing like four or five, six podcasts a day, getting ready for my book. Launch the energy formula. Go to energy formula.com, and I am so excited about it.

I was on Ben Greenfield, I was on j Campbell yesterday. I've been on a lot of cool shows, but like literally, I've had this one circled on my schedule because I am the biggest Molly McLaughlin fan. Like I have literally been fanboying out. For all of you listeners of Molly McLaughlin right now know that like I am like just the hugest fan.

of Molly. Oh, we met less than a month ago. We were connected through a friend, a mutual friend, Kayla. Yep. Uh, who's another podcast guest. Yep. And is one of my best friends. And I literally talked to her every single day and I knew that when she recommended Molly, that this would be amazing. And it has exceeded all my expectations.

And the last time we were supposed to record a podcast, but I was stuck in traffic in Austin and I was just like, well, I don't think that I'll be able to get back to my hotel room in time. There was like bumper to bumper traffic and we ended up doing a call and just getting on a Zoom call, but not doing the podcast.

And it was incredible. And it kind of set up the stage for this. And we've been doing like little voice memos back and forth to each other every day. And I'm so thankful for your friendship. And then we are going to be presenting at Biohack in Congress and at an Airbnb with Kayla, with all these cool people.

And we'll be getting photos and we'll be speaking on stage. And I'm just so excited for all the things that are happening with me and Molly. Yay. Oh my goodness. What an amazing, amazing rundown of just such a serendipitous kind of collection of events that have happened. And I'm so grateful to have been even further connected with you, with your work.

I've been familiar with your work previously, but then even to have this personal connection is really exciting and I. I'm at biohacking Congress, so we're gonna rush to put this podcast out soon. So if anyone's still listening, still has the opportunity to check that out, definitely check that out. Sean is gonna be speaking there among a whole roster of other great speakers, so can't wait to also share what we learn from there and see if we can even do some kind of something, some live something or other while we're all there.

So be really cool and yes, and just thank you so much. Cause I know in the midst of your launch book launch is not a small thing and as you said, you have tons of podcasts going on some really big heavy hitters and to make the time is really exciting. So, so having said that, then what I'd love to do is just jump right in and put the spotlight on you for a little bit because I think your ability to share.

Your background openly and authentically I think is so powerful for people, for any human listening, but certainly for, for the people that often show up for sleep as a skill, they're going through things often or have been through things and that have shown up as for their often symptomology around difficulty sleeping, and yet you have so much to share in your health journey.

So I'd love to hear a bit more background so that people can really be acquainted with your work and why there's just so much passion behind everything you're doing and the book that you're putting out, which is just not another book, , there's a lot going on there, so take it away with that. Let me set up the stage with now, cuz this is really cool.

This, this actually kind of made my heart sing when I thought about this the other day, was that Ben Greenfield and Jay Campbell, who both have like big followings on their podcast. What's cool is Ben Greenfield read the book cover to cover and he thought, you know, it was so great with all the ingredients cuz he interviewed so many people and, and it, the book covers a lot.

But he loved all the ingredient discussions and of course that's what I'm known for as the world's greatest formulator, as the ingredient ologist all these things. And I've come out with all these patented ingredients, I've formulated over 500 products. So that's what he enjoyed. What was cool is I just talked to Jake Campbell yesterday, who's a guy that went from like human optimization and testosterone replacement and peptides and all that and even like body building ish stuff to like now being in consciousness.

And he's like, oh bro, this is a consciousness.  and I was like, fuck yes. Like yes, I feel seen. Yes,  like it really did make me feel seen because just so you know, I rewrote this book three times over the last two years because of like all the shifts I've been doing in plant medicine, in therapy, doing like Byron Katie style work with working with mentors, going to masterminds, like massive shifts and like learning how to love myself and have that solid foundation with self-care.

Like finally getting into parasympathetic nervous system, vagal tone. Those have been massive changes for me. Putting the right people around me of which is Mollie McGlocklin. Oh, right. Back at you. You're in my inner circle for sure. Like these are the kind of relationships that I truly love. But that shift has been massive for me.

And I also recorded my book six months ago. I was done, but literally like reading it through, I was like, this is good, but it's like a b plus to me. And I was like literally at a pivotal point and I'm like, is that good enough? Am I okay with that? Because I kept shifting my heart. Yeah. And I wanted to tell like weave in more of my personal stories that were pretty gut-wrenching.

Like Yeah. Of stuff that I've been through. We can get into in a second. Yeah, definitely. But also, also I wanted to add more of the. The the consciousness piece, which I feel like is the foundation like for so long. Like when you hear all, all the ways I was sick, you're gonna think, I'm gonna listen to this guy as a biohacker , but I would be dead right now if it wasn't for all the biohacks.

I was so heads down. I was so driven for achievement. I was working 80 to a hundred hours a week. I had body dysmorphia. I had autoimmune issues at Epstein Bar fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, Hashimotos. I had a brain tumor. I had my two discs replaced in my neck. I had hip and knee and back surgeries.

I was pushing so hard. I had anorexia. I went from 300 pounds to 150 pounds. Wow. And I was weighing myself. Every time I peed, I loathed myself. I hated my body. I hated who I was. I didn't feel loved, and I certainly didn't love myself. And then there was even points where I was 220 pounds jacked and ripped Ortho reic where I was working out four hours a day and everything revolved around getting the right meals and all this stuff.

And I was never happy. And even as an entrepreneur, I have all these letters after my name. I was on all these stages. I got on all these TV shows making millions of dollars. I should be so happy. Like I have like the perfect house, I have a really badass sports car. I have all these things. And I was m.  all of this achievement because I thought when I achieved a certain level of, of this, then people would love me.

And then I would love myself. I was externalizing the hope of love so that I could love myself. And once I got to this level, whatever that level is, like when I get to a certain weight, then I will be sexy. When I get to a certain amount of wealth, then I will be successful. When I get to a certain car or house or job or uh, level of patents or formulations or in this certain room with masterminds, then I will be happy.

All those are states of being Yeah, not states of doing not achievements. And it was only once I got into plant medicine that I had these huge shifts of awareness.  where I was rewiring and refiring in my brain, these neurons that I completely shifted my life and my thought patterns. And so I'm so proud now that those biohacks are on the foundation, a solid foundation of self-care and self-love.

And now I love myself, and now I have much deeper and richer relationships with myself, with nature, with my dog, with my friends, with these places I go. I used to work through all of my vacations. I was so proud. I wore it as a badge of honor that I just worked 16 hours in Maui today. I just worked 16 hours in Fiji today.

Yes, I just worked 16 hours in in Bali today or whatever. I used to be so proud of that, and I thought those suckers that are just sitting there, laying there like. Ridiculous. I was like totally entrenched in this hustle and grind mentality. And grind is like hustle. Sympathetic. Yeah. We have to do hustle sometimes.

We have to chase things at times, but grind means heads down miserable. Sacrificing not even aware of what's going on in life. Grind means heat pieces breaking off. You breaking down smoke. Like this isn't like a way to carry out your life. It should be hustle to get to states of flow. It should be temporary discomfort so that you can get to states of ease instead of being in states of dis-ease, literally.

Wow. That is so, I mean, I was literally taking notes as you were sharing all that, cuz it sounds like a, a complete journey, a complete transformation of who you know yourself to be. Certainly with your book. It's the concept around energy, energy formula. And yet we're talking on so many layers of what that all comes together and not just kind of for your productivity or what have you, which is an element of that.

Of course. And yet at the same time we're talking a whole transformation of who you show up as, who you are able to be or choose to be moment to moment versus the striving, the doing, the, when I get the patent, when I get the this, and putting it in terms of, you know, people listening, maybe you're not striving for a patent or what have you, but.

When I get the promotion, when I get the this, the other, and certainly as in this conversation, I can so relate to all that. That was part of when I had my sleep. Whole breakdown was just, oh my God, things are not working. This complete sympathetic overload, ah, freak out. And really just, it took my body saying no more in so many words of just all these symptoms, but particularly in this conversation, the sleep that had it really interrupted.

It sounds like you were able to, through all of that brain tumor. All of these ortho ano, Rex, all these different places that you went through to kind of come to the other side and now be such a kind of example of what's possible. So I really acknowledge you for that. That's incredible. And so, and I, I was sharing before we even started that, I was like, we can go so many directions because there's so many places that virtually you have so much information.

We wanna how to like, extract even just pieces of that for this conversation. So number one, what's number, number one? This is the first show of a three show trilogy. Just so you know. I'm just letting know. That they'll, there'll be two more shows that are upcoming. So  , I love it. Exactly. That is totally how it's gonna go because I mean, I know we could even the trilogy.

Oh, come on. Absolutely. So to piece this out, just even starting at the basics, sleep throughout all of this, throughout some of your journeys, throughout what you've shared, share with us a bit how your relationship to your sleep has been over those years. How did it look back when you were in that kind of go, go, go hustle state and into Yeah.

And into today. And what have you kind of gathered out of that? Do you have a different relationship to, to your sleep now? My sleep has traditionally been horrible and so bad. I mean, I had a, a, a difficult childhood just being straight up. I don't really want to get into all that. Yeah. I remember being at like, even slumber parties with 10 other boys, like down in this, this one friend's basement.

And I was like, they were all asleep.  and like, I was like the only one up. And it just, I remember like that at every slumber party, every sleepover, like, you know, for the longest time I thought that was just a norm for me. But then when I was around other kids, I saw, this isn't normal . Like yes, same. I remember.

I feel seen. Yep. How, how, like, you know, people would fall asleep with a TV on, people would fall asleep just in a chair. People would fall asleep in the airplane or like in a car. And I'm like, I need like the white noise machine. I need the like pillow between my legs. I need like the perfect temperature.

I need like the right pillow underneath my head that's cradling my head. That's not too high, not too low. I need to like, I need to have all of these things that can't be light in the room, like . I can't have somebody up on me. Like I can't, like it is gotta be like all the like perfect pieces for me to fall asleep and then to add to it.

I, so I think a lot of. My stress and spending most of my life in an ultras sympathetic hypervigilant state, never really getting to parasympathetic. I think it was just degrees of sympathetic. Yes. You know, like I was really relaxed and like what was worse is. , it's taken me a, a lot of work to like go into like sleep de um, not sleep, um, um, a sensory deprivation chamber.

Mm-hmm.  or something like that. Sure. And my brain did not go haywire. Yeah. I have so much going on. I have so much drive. And it is an addiction that you have to like, kind of. Piece part and undo and really look at, and that's what therapy and plant medicine and all these things have helped with. But I'm one of those people that when the lights go off and it gets quiet, then my brain goes like, even, even more crazy.

And it's like 10 x the thinking of all the things I have to get done, the stresses and what did I do right or what did I do wrong today, analyzing it, what do I have tomorrow? And, and it's not a relaxing state. Um, so that's something that I've worked on , you know, in more recent years to try and undo, add to that, I had a pituitary tumor and that caused even more issues with my sleep.

I was getting, when I ended up diagnosing that I had prolactin that was through the roof. It's prolactinoma. I had testosterone that was like 70, which is horrible. I had high beta estradiol and I was getting like two or three hours of sleep a night for.  we're close to a year and it was killing me, obviously.

Of course. Yes. And so I, you know, went to the doctor for that and we, we examined all that and found that I had a, a pituitary adenoma, but I've had my issues with sleep and it's taken a lot of work. Now, I'm not a hundred percent sure if there's like just some basic physiologic factors here. Mm-hmm. , but like mm-hmm.

there's certainly some psychological factors that I've been biohacking it and I've been working on self-love and self-care, but it doesn't come easy for me for sure. And it's gotten much better. I can get, I think, six and a half hours fairly easily now. And, you know, the quality of it is something that I'm working on improving too.

But, you know, I've been examining all that. But I would say that, It's not been an easy path for me. And I'm sure a lot of your listeners,  Yes, can relate similar, uh, things as well. So I'm proud of where I am. I certainly know many, many, many sleep hacks because Yes, sure. I'm trying to survive and it's miserable.

Like when you have. 80, a hundred hour work weeks when you're traveling to, you know, I've been to like over 40, 50 countries like I was supposed to be traveling 300 days last year. You know, like, wow, I have tough schedule. And so to not get sleep in that is, is really tough. So, yeah. . Absolutely. Well I can still relate to that when my sleep breakdown basically happened was on the road and in traveling internationally and it just was, you know, from one place to another place.

And when you're not sleeping, it's, it's a whole other thing. So I completely hear that. Um, even just on morsel of that, but let alone what you're sharing with having some of these health issues that are, make it so, so challenging to get that sleep that you need. So I really get that. So there's so much to unpack out of that and I'm wondering if you can help us connect some of these dots from, because this is certainly an area we haven't gone into deep on the podcast of.

Cause I know there's so much that you discussed in the book, but this kind of basis of mitochondrial health and unpacking that a bit, kind of just the ABCs of that and how that is related to sleep and drawing those parallels. Cause I think a lot of listeners might not be in that conversation. Yeah, I'm very passionate about mitochondria and.

because I've spent so much of my life, low energy because of lack of sleep, because of autoimmune issues, because of pushing too hard, because of being an ultras sympathetic nervous system states being in hypervigilance, like it's literally put a massive toll on my mitochondria running into mitochondrial dysfunction, which has led to metabolic dysfunction.

Mm. Which is elevated. So when you don't, you probably know this, but when you don't get enough sleep, one your, your neurons actually do fire slower.  and you're looking for energy. This is why when people wake up without enough sleep, they're looking for sugar immediately, caffeine immediately, they're actually firing less slow or not as fast.

Mm-hmm. . And so also you get in into states of acute insulin resistance. So the glucose that you're looking for doesn't even get into the cell as well. There's actually insulin resistance, so you're an insufficient cellular energy states. It's called ICE is the acronym in the brain. It's called Brain Energy Gap.

It's the same idea. So you're not getting enough fuel into the cell. And so basically Alzheimer's is type three diabetes, and you're essentially in acute Alzheimer's when you get six and a half or less hours of sleep. Mm-hmm. . And when you do this chronically, say with sleep apnea, , now you're running into, uh, metabolic syndrome and you're in a pro disease state.

Almost all disease is correlated to metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance and also biological aging over chronological aging. And so when you run into mitochondrial dysfunction, because you're not getting that fuel into the cell to create that energy in that kreb cycle, crank the a t P, the energy currency for your body, adenosine triphosphate, then you run into glycation inflammation.

Oxidation. So that's those things when chronic are killing you. Literally killing you. Like I really think I could reshape medicine. Like radically reshaped medicine. If we could just look at three basic labs that are under a hundred bucks every six months. If we were looking at hemoglobin a1c for glycation blood sugar damage.

Yep. If we were looking at C R P C reactive protein for inflammation and we were looking at oxidized L D L. For oxidation levels and those collectively, we could really see what your metabolic picture looks like and also what your tendency towards all disease and biological aging looks like. I think it's a better marker than like the D n A and and methylation picture.

That could be helpful as well. But, and then some other things I might add to that is, is lipoprotein A and vitamin D status. If I was to round it out with five labs that are kind of like my most critical, but those are so cheap and we don't look at C-reactive protein until we have coronary heart disease.

We don't look at hemoglobin A1C until we're diabetic, until it's really too late. And so if we were looking at these things, we could see this picture. Of what we're doing to our bodies. We would see like, hey, like your inflammation's up chronically, your glycation is up chronically. I think you're in a state of insufficient cellular energy.

I think you're in a state of mitochondrial dysfunction. I think that you have a propensity towards metabolic syndrome. In all disease states like Parkinson's, like Alzheimer's, like cancer, like coronary heart disease, practically, everything is correlated to these elevated insulin levels and inflammation and lack of cellular energy.

So this is a massive problem. And of course, when you're having mitochondrial dysfunction and unable to create the energy that's needed, then you're also putting your body into states. , uh, being an ultras sympathetic nervous system states essentially because there's not enough ener. It's like literally like you trying to run your, your car on very little gas or like regular gas.

Like if I, I have this M six, uh, b m w, if I was to put like regular gas in it and like traditional motor oil, it wouldn't be running very well. It would be chugging and spotting down the road, right? And so that's what we're doing. Like our body's working overtime because it doesn't have the resources, it doesn't have the energy, and of course it's not going to be able to rest, relax, recover, be in states of autophagy cleaning up and detox.

that's not going to be able to happen. So this is a downward spiral of energy hell basically . So yes, it has a massive impact. . That is so well said. Oh my goodness. And I love the, um, breakdown of some of these key kind of, uh, assessments to get for yourself that are affordable, getting some of these lab work done to get a sense of where things are at, and and from there make some of those, those choices.

So assuming people they get these labs and things are just not looking good one. Absolutely. Getting your book is gonna be a fantastic investment to go through that crazy levels of things that you can do to really take, uh, hold of your health and wellbeing for the long term. And not, we're not just talking about like, grab a supplement or what ha And it's not making anything about supplements, but I'm saying there are so many things from a holistic perspective that you get into in there.

And yet, I'm wondering if you could share with us some of the things that you would, almost like a top down approach. Say we get those, you know, labs back, it's not looking good. What are some of the things that we need or a framework or an approach that we should be thinking of from that place to make a difference there, particularly in this area of sleep, to get those results, but how do you approach that from when you get those labs back?

What is the, the technique? Yeah. I mean, most ideally you're working with a, a functional medicine doctor and you can not only get these labs, but follow up on these labs. Yes. Especially with the interventions to see how these interventions are taking place, of which I can tell you some of the interventions I would recommend.

Yeah, definitely hiring someone like Mollie McGlocklin to help you with your sleep would be a no-brainer. Come on, . Amazing. So, so some of the things that I would recommend on the mitochondrial front. Yeah, sure. I believe in IV, n a d is probably the best thing for mitochondrial health. Feels miserable for about three hours.

It's not fun. You feel like semi puking. You can take fenner again, you can have it at a slower, uh, drip rate that can make it more tolerable, but it's not enjoyable. You know, you can do it like every day straight for a week. You can do it every week for six weeks or something like that. There are approaches that like, it has like synergistic effects.

I would say if you do it repetitiously, you can do intranasal n a d, but that actually varies quite a bit. One and how much n a D is in the the bottle. And then two, Just in how you squirt it in your nose, like there's been wide variants so that that is hit or miss. Orally. There are N na D supplements.

Those don't do very well nr, which is true. Nigen, I'm not a big fan of the data, has actually been pretty poor. Nmn nicotinamide, mono nucleotide is the one that I do prefer. That's the one that Rhonda, Patrick, Peter Atilla and David St. Clair all back. I'm a big fan of N M N, definitely getting the right dose.

Most people are taking way too low a dose. It gets expensive. But above a gram is is where I would try and get taking some other things that are gonna help with like the electron transport chain. Part of it would be things like coq 10, especially in the reduced form called ubiquinol. PQ in its fermented form.

I think it's Bio PQ Q is a really good one. Get 10 to 20 milligrams. And then from there, and actually there's a really cool antioxidant called Ergo Thine. It's under the brand of Mito Prime. And what's cool about this is it's been considered for vitamin status. You have a unique transporter system in your body, specifically for ergo thine.

So this compound is actually pretty breakthrough. And then you have a storage system in your body specifically for ergo thine. And what's cool is it protects the mitochondria specifically, not just like an antioxidant for the cell. Like most antioxidants that. , most data on antioxidants is actually kinda weak, but the way this works is very different in protecting that mitochondria.

So MIT prime, l Orgo thine is something I would look at at about five to 10 milligrams a day. And then from there, , I would look to reduce some of those other things that I was talking about. So glycation, the most potent thing that we know of as a drug is metformin. It's been shown to extend life by as much as two years, even in healthy people.

Uh, there's a study going on with over 3000 people right now looking at that. The thing I don't like about Metformin is it's one, it was tainted and recalled last year. It lowers B12 levels, putting you in an anemic situation. And then three has GI distress issues. And burberine the botanical equivalent has been shown head-to-head to be superior to metformin.

But even cooler is a form that I've patented . Oh, do tell.  that when at the gut level, burberine converts to Dihydro Burberine, and so this form is about five to 10, maybe even as much as 20 times more bioavailable. We've had super responders also called hyper responds. I think it just depends on the gut.

It's really interesting. So we're looking at it, but it's markedly better in terms of bioavailability. So the doses are much lower, doesn't have the GI distress cuz it's already in its active form. And it lasts about twice as long the plasma, so you, you have to dose much less frequently as well. But it's been shown to be superior in every way to berberine.

And therefore if you extrapolate metformin, so this is what I would take as an anti glycation end product ingredient and also, uh, glucose disposal agent. It works via ampk, a m p kinase if you're into all that stuff. But this is how it works and this is one of the, the hallmarks for how we age. And so this is one of the things that I would focus on first and foremost is glycation and glucose disposal and lowering insulin levels.

And regardless of whether you are diabetic metabolic syndrome or not, even if you're lean, this is something that I would take Wow, do more . You probably have. I have more. I have more. Ok. Yeah, keep going. , I'm taking notes that are these show notes guys are gonna be insane. I mean, cuz I know half of you are gonna need to be like Googling and

It's in the book. Exactly. Exactly. There you go. That's the 99 cents through April. I'll get into all that stuff. Like, perfect. This is sustained value though, like, and please support the book because I am not making money on it at all. Yeah. This is about getting in people's hands because I've been, I didn't even get into like my suicidal stuff and depression and I, I've been through it, just, I've been through it and I'm proud to be here and all I can say is I'm excited that I'm here on this show with you.

Everything, everything in my life has led to this point. I wouldn't go back and change anything. Yeah. It's led to my empathy, my passion, my purpose, my why. I am so glad that I am here. And I'm so glad that I'm on this podcast with you right now. I am mindful, I am present. I am happy, but I love that getting into inflammation.

That's the next one. So I've worked on an ingredient called Cucu Prime. Uh, it's Tetra Hydra Curcumin, so it's a downstream metabolite of curcumin. Curcumin has issues with bioavailability. There's been a lot of companies that have tried to work on that with like black pepper extract or liposomes or all these different things.

But tetra hydra, curcumin, uh, one is white and doesn't stain, which is nice, especially if you're a manufacturer or you just put these capsules in your pants or whatever. Yes, spin there. The yellow is super staining, but two, it's just, it's more metabolically active. Higher bioavailability. It's a more potent antioxidant and works better on inflammation.

So Cury, prime, tetra hyd, curcumin. Also C B, D, I'm sure everyone knows C, B, D. I've heard cannabidiol maybe uses it for sleep. Pain, inflammation, et cetera. Mood. The thing is, I will tell you what you probably don't know. Yes, it's a cannabinoid. Yes, it's a phyto cannabinoid cuz it comes from plants and yes, it's not the psychoactive cannabinoid, th h c, but what you might not know is the endo cannabinoid system.

The e c s is just as important as the circulatory system, the nervous system. And there's no endocannabinoid doctors. There's no endocannabinoid testing. I don't know why this is, I mean, it's fairly recent research, like maybe nineties on up, but still I'm confused about this because it's known as the master controller system of mood pain and inflamm.

Like I baffled by it and people clearly have deficiencies in it and it causes issues. Now whether C B D is going to be the miracle for you at filling in that gap and at what dose and with what other ingredients, terpenes and other cannabinoids. I don't know. We're working on other ones like cbg, cbn.

I've actually, uh, come out with a form anandamide that's actually the bliss chemical. Really cool mite. Literally makes feel blissful and happy. Yeah. Very cool though. Anandamide. And so how many, um, by the way, do you have a number of, did you, I might have missed that. How many have you patented or, or kind of coined?

Well, I have, I have more than 10 out right now, but I have probably 20 in flight on top of that. Wow. How cool. Cool. Yeah. Cause now I work with a partner in China that has a 400,000 square foot facility, over a hundred scientists, full funding it's g pharmaceutical level. And then I have, um, two partners that are just like legends in research and intellectual property.

Dr. Martin ura, Dr. Ralph Yeager. And like I have a whole team that works on like the legal side with intellectual property, the patent applications, the trademarking, all that stuff. I have like a whole thing that's like in place now so I can just dream up all this cool stuff and it just happens. Amazing.

All right, well I can't wait to hear more. This is awesome. So the last one, oxidation antioxidants in general suck. Yeah. And antioxidants, I think largely when taken exogenously, like as supplements, really are counterproductive. One, I would say this is not the case is vitamin C. And I've actually used this quite a bit through Covid, especially if like I've just done traveling, I've just done a mastermind or a journey and I was around 20, 30, 40, 50 people.

I'll come back and I do IV vitamin C at like 30 to 50 grams and it literally knocks anything out like that. Hmm. It's amazing. It works incredibly. It's the thing to do  and that's like an anti-cancer dose, so it's a very potent dose. It's not cheap, couple hundred bucks, but it definitely works extremely well if you want to knock something out.

But getting onto what I think are good antioxidants that aren't traditional antioxidants is a group called the polyphenols. Mm. And those are potently, anti-aging and kind of work on a different mechanism. They're hormetic, so they actually.  improve the adaptation, the resilience of the body. There's sein gene activators, they're caloric restriction matics, so they work differently than typical antioxidants because a lot of times, like oxidation is a signal for adaptation, for change.

And so when we take antioxidants, it prevents like a natural process from taking place. Hmm. Just like there's times when inflammation's good, like for the immune process or when you are bleeding and you know, have a cut or whatever, like it's actually that inflammation sends out signals. These things. And same with like blood sugar being elevated, that can be good.

It's just chronic blood sugar elevation, chronic inflammation, chronic oxidation, and that's because you're running into chronic cellular dysfunction with a mitochondria, an insufficient cellular energy state. . So these polyphenols are amazing and if you look at across society in general, like these storied foods and beverages, green tea high in E G C G or polyphenol mm-hmm  red wine high in trans resveratrol.

The cow, like you look at blueberries with teryl beam, you look at Harley as agen and like onions and apples have coricidin, like these are all chlorogenic acid in coffee. These are all amazing and they're sein gene activators. The anti-aging genes, like David Sinclair goes into these quite a bit that like they're literally like when times are hard on your body, when there are hormetic stressors or tresses, it's called EU stress.

Then the body upregulates the sein genes and makes you tougher, more resilient, harder to kill. We become easier to kill because we're less resilient because we eat all day long. We don't go periods without eating because we're thermally controlled. We don't go to extremes of temperature, like hot saunas and cold plunges and things like that.

We're controlled at 68 to 72 degrees all day long. So what's cool is these ingredients are all hormetic stressors, and they help us adapt and they make us tougher. So it works in a different and better way. The actually, the, the one that performs the best out of all of them at activating the sein genes and increasing N A D levels is one called cetin, and it comes from strawberries on the other side of the equation.

So as we age, we make dramatically less n a d, the cellular fuel, this, uh, mitochondrial fuel.  and the other side of the equation is we more rapidly metabolize n i D as we age. So we break it down faster and there's one of these polyphenols that dramatically impacts that called apigenin from parsley. So the ultimate combination would be cetin at increasing n a d and activating sine genes and apigenin at preventing n a d breakdown as an N nada's inhibitor.

It's also called CD 38 inhibition. So pairing those together would be very potent. And then adding something like nmn in. Now you have like the ultimate combination. I'm unlocking the secrets to aging right here, . I think so. I think that's what we're getting at. And by the way, I am 85 years old and looks so damn sexy.

It's crazy. So this stuff works. Oh my God. Yeah. You guys gotta check out the video version of this. Uh, you will see an 85 year. Before us. Amazing. Wow. Well, I know that our, uh, the people on the show notes will really have their work cut out for them. So again, uh, the takeaway is to definitely check out the book.

I'm not, I'm not trying to say check out the book so much, but I'm just saying like, there's so many things in here that it, I don't think this is everyday language that we're hearing from so many people. And so you're bringing in so much kind of nuance into this conversation that I really appreciate.

Not even nuance, it's the foundational elements, but I think it's, it's new language for a lot of people. Um, and the understanding of what's possible for our health out of, uh, some of this is just really huge. So now that you are speaking about some of these specifics, I'm wondering.  since you are the, you know, the foremost leader on ingredients and so many people wanna, while this whole conversation around behavioral change and different things you can do for your sleep, it's like, yeah, that's nice.

And what are the supplements? So I'm curious if you could  just even if, uh, kind of a top down of how you think about supplements as it relates to sleep specifically. And I know these of course, so many of the things that we've just touched on obviously are getting at that end for the people that wanna go through some of those, the things that we might immediately go to, whether it's magnesium, whether it's some of the El Faine, whether it's some of the five h, t P, all of these different things that often will be thrown out around for, to help with your sleep.

And of course melatonin wondering if you can just break down some of your thoughts on, you know, what's worth it, what's not worth it. And I know that these are very broad statements that I'm saying, so it's very much bioindividuality, but just some of your , your look at that. And, and I get into all the various stacks in the book of like, immune health, longevity for sports nutrition, exercise performance for sleep.

Yes. I, I cover all these stacks in the book, but that's a great point. And one that I would like to elucidate a little bit is that all of these things I just mentioned, if you are optimizing your cellular health, your mitochondrial health, by reducing inflammation, glycation oxidation, lowering insulin levels, you are going to sleep better.

Yeah. When you have systemic inflammation, you have neuroinflammation. When you have systemic insulin resistance, you have neurological insulin resistance. I mean, it's one system. So there's issues that are going on and, and when you're in sympathetic nervous system states and have poor vagal. , then it becomes an issue for you to fall asleep.

So all of these things are playing into that. Having better H R V through cardiovascular training, I mean, all of that's going to improve your sleep, how you deal with stress and improving this stress bucket. So allostatic load is so critical, and that's the allostatic load means your stress bucket, your resilience bucket, your capacity for stress.

Like I said, we're easier to kill now because we have much smaller stress buckets. And when we're more resilient, it means a larger stress bucket. And when you add to that with U stresses, hormetic stresses, it grows the stress bucket.  and when you add too much of even these tresses, even these things like red light therapy, a fasting of of working out with keto, with all this stuff, it can actually become a distress if the bucket is overflowing, things that normally would be hormetic stressors, positive U stressors.

They can become distresses. So it's something to be mindful of. Yes. And I, I was sharing with you that  recently, I've been having over the past couple weeks, I, you know, was transitioning to keto and testing a bunch of things, and then certainly experiencing an element of eustress, of lots of opportunities come in and all kinds of things happening.

And then what I saw was my H R V just going down and down and, uh, an utter just a fantastic conversation with you and you pointing to the importance of going back to the allostatic load understanding and that that is something that we really wanna be, um, familiar with, aware of, and in a dance with throughout our lives.

Yeah. And I'll get to the supplement stack in just a second one. Yeah, of course. The thing that that came to me is speaking of form, Did you know that your grapes, let's say for your red wine, which are higher in trans resveratrol, don't even bother white wine, by the way? Yes. Red wine, especially a drier one that's lower in sugar, a little lower in alcohol, but higher in polyphenols.

The drier is the better. Did you know that if it comes from an arid climate, a low moisture climate, a climate with high sun, that those grapes have hormetic stress? And it's called xeno hormesis. When you are taking in those grapes, let's say buy a wine, because they've lived a tougher life, they have higher polyphenols and help you with your hormetic stress.

So it's kind of a cool thing that happened. So cool. Yeah, it's, it's very cool. Very cool. So anyway, my sleep stack and I like to think about optimization.  because there's things, for example, this may seem counterintuitive, but there's things that enhance your focus and cognitive function that will enhance your sleep as well.

And this is a good sign that you're optimizing your body. It's not just drugging yourself as an upper with a stimulant or a downer. That's the process we think we need, but optimization will be able to do both. So that's what I'm saying about a lot of the ingredients I mentioned Yes. Is you won't need the downer, you won't need the upper.

Yeah. It's the foundational, the root problem you're addressing. Exactly, but we can get into some things and something like C B D can be an important piece if, and maybe even t H c depending on if that is an, an area of deficiency for you. And there's bioindividuality there with that endocannabinoid system.

So that's just something that people should explore. It may be helpful. You may have to go way higher than the dose you're getting of 10 milligrams or something. Some people go as. A hundred or higher milligrams. Yes. In a dose. So it's something to explore. I do like altheine. Altheine is a really cool ingredient that evens you out, that improves that vagal tone.

So it's actually one of the things like nature is the greatest formulator ever. I love this that in green tea I was talking about before, there's E G C G that improves vasodilation. It's an antioxidant. And. . It also has altheine present that's been shown to be synergistic with caffeine that's present in tea.

It smooths out the effect evens it out. So you're able to focus like we're not stimulated, we're focused. And what's really cool is all those three ingredients are present and they all have synergy together in the green tea. Mm-hmm. . So that's a cool maybe hack for you to use during that day. If you need a little bit of focus is that you get that E G C.

You get the caffeine, you get the thinning with, with a good green tea. But going back to the evening time thinning will take a little bit of that edge off. There's another herb that I really like Magnolia bark, and it has something called hauk present in it. And it's a potent anxiolytic, meaning it reduces anxiety.

If you're someone who's prone to anxiety or someone like me that the monkey mind goes crazy at night, this can kind of quiet that monkey mind and allow you to get better sleep. I also like adaptogens a ton. Mm, adaptogens work on both ends. Again, optimizing you. What they are doing is increasing your stress bucket capacity.

That allostatic load capacity, they normalize you, so adaptogens are helping you adapt better. So Ashwaganda, Ola, Maka, lions Main, those are probably my four favorite. And if you look at all these cultures, these are the most storied herbs across all these cultures, right? If you go to Russia, it's Ola. If you go to India, it's Asheville Ganda.

If you go down to South America, it's Maka like all these cultures, gin, sing in Asia, like they all have their different adaptogens because these things literally do everything because when you're normalized, when you're more resilient, you do everything. That's the key to a better life is just greater resilience, a greater allostatic load.

So that should be what we're looking for. I love that. And for, um, on the adapt and piece, since we're, you know, starting to see those pop up in so many products and drinks and this, that and the other, is there ever a tipping point of kind of overdoing it or anything to be aware of for that or timing? 19 because it's normalizing you.

Mm-hmm. . But what I do like to do is kind of rotate them in and out. Okay. Like, we're not using the same one all the time. Yes. I like to like, maybe use Ashwaganda for a month, Ola for the next month, Maka for the next month. Sometimes I dose them fairly high, but I'm constantly rotating them in and out. And I actually like to do this with all my supplements.

I don't like to just chronically use something every day at the same exact dose. Mm. Because I think your body, like for example, like when you're using exogenous testosterone, meaning like outside the body, testosterone like an injection or a pill or cream or whatever, your body stops making testosterone.

And so the body, we don't need anymore. We're already getting it. There's kind of adaptations that can happen in the body when you do something and it's super predictable. And that's a key with like Essis is not being predictable, not doing things the exact same way every time or else that becomes the baseline.

Yes. Well, on that, I'm sorry, I got excited  didn't mean to interrupt you. I would love to hear your take on that relationship with melatonin. Of course we, you know, there's different schools of thought on this, but just curious, your approach to that topic when people are dealing with their sleep or some people even now with C O V D have been even adding that in as a, a measure for overall health.

So curious, your take on, uh, do you have concerns about that? That's a really tough one. Yeah, and a really fascinating one because there's data. These massive doses, like actually have like a potent anti-aging, the supr charismatic clock. Yes. Which is kind of like the master clock. Like it helps reset that and protect that.

And there's been people that have taken like crazy doses, like a hundred milligrams or you know, certainly upward of 10 that have seen benefit. What that does long term, I don't know. And, and there's not much data on that. Yeah. But it's certainly interesting to look at and I think acutely doing very high doses, especially when you're traveling, can be really effective.

So like when I go to the Middle East or China or whatever, when I get there, , I take a massive dose, like 10, 20, 30 milligrams because there's some data there that suggests that can be very effective to reset that master clock. As for taking it daily, I do take it daily because I've had so much issues and I think I basically don't make any.

So for me, I think the best practice when you're doing any hormone replacement therapy, any optimization of hormones, is I try and take the minimal exogenous efficacious dose, right? So whatever it is that I can get the maximum effect for.  at the minimal dose is what I should do. So melatonin, you can buy in 300 micrograms or essentially 0.3 milligrams up to 10 milligrams.

So you know, and the older you are, the less melatonin you naturally make. So something to look at would be, can I start with 0.3 milligram?  and go from there and then, you know, maybe try, you know, two of those capsules the next night and try, you know, three of those and see where you can get, and certainly add in some of the things you're talking about, like a magnesium bis glycinate, which I am a fan of, altheine, B6 in the form of P five p taking, uh, the dihydro or l-theanine, you know, taking like some of the, like even just using sleepy time tea, like depending on what, what works for you.

Some of these things, quite frankly, like a supplement, especially built around the behavior of sleep, can end up being a psychosomatic anchor. . Mm, yes. It's not just a physiologic effect. There's behavior that's anchored to that taste. Just like I can't wake up until I have my coffee. Like there's the smell, the taste that's anchored to you.

Waking up that even if I give you decaf coffee and didn't tell you, you're like feeling great now. Like because it's an anchor to you. The same thing could be true at night, and that's why it's important to have proper sleep hygiene, create a routine around your sleep and have that sleep fortress that's predictable as well.

All of which I'm sure you've talked about deeply , but these things become psychosomatic anchors and it's something I've talked about what's really cool, like in the, uh, blue Zones where people like live beyond a hundred as supercentenarians. One thing that, yes, they have community and connection, which I get into in the book.

Yes, they're living their why, they have their purpose, which is critical. These things are massive to longevity, the most important factors. But one thing that I explored that I think is really interesting is that I believe in these countries, they could even be eating bad food and still have health because of psychosomatic anchors around Having that purpose, having that why, having that connection, yes.

Seeing the food slowly and having it's anchored to the body that it's time to relax and be in that parasympathetic state when I have this food and your body is not inflamed. Your body is not. Worried your body is not vigilant when it's eating food. The opposite is true in America. When we're going into gas stations, when we're eating from vending machines, when we're in traffic, when we're standing up, when we're watching Game of Thrones, when we're watching a tight ball game, when we're upset, having an argument and eating, when we're alone in eating, all of these things can trigger inflammation and stress.

Even if we're eating healthy food. Yes, yes. You have food. It anchors stress. Yes. Your body thinks, oh, food, time for stress. Whereas in Europe, they have food and they think it's time to relax. Mm. That's a massive difference. . Well, okay, so this is, uh, I loved, you just touched on so many great points that I think we've got some areas to go into for our part two, part three, uh, for sure.

And to be respectful of your time Then, uh, those were so good. So I wanted to hear from you then, cuz you've clearly a deep thinker. You've thought so much about this and, and you've written it out. You've put into the book, written the book a couple times, basically  in order to get it into a place that you're proud of.

So I'd love to hear now just a couple quick things that we are asking every guest that comes on around their relationship to their sleep. So, and I'm sure this evolves and I'm sure this changes and you're probably testing things or trying different things out. We're rotating. How would you describe your current nightly sleep routine right now?

Solid, but I could use Molly McLaughlin in my life to dial it in . Oh, well I'll help you with that. Okay, good. No, I, I think it's solid and I do think I could actually use your help. I think I definitely discuss that. A lot of things. Well, And I've improved it quite a bit, but I could certainly hone it in with an expert for sure.

I love that response because I think that in a modern society it is something that I think we need to be continually looking at and is it working, is it not working? As we're upleveling in our life, it's, you know, things change and ebb and flow. So I think that's really, really wide and I the accountability for sure.

Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. So then the next question would be, what is on your nightstand? It can be your like proverbial nightstand. I know you're barring Covid would have been traveling so much this year. So it might be kind of a, your gadgets, your supplements, your ambient environment apps, anything that you point to there.

Uh, wow. On my nightstand, I know that's a big question. I have my Manta sleep mask. Okay. Very. I do keep, uh, water by my nightstand so I don't have to get up or I can take an extra sip if, if I want during the night. I do put it in, uh, my phone in airplane mode, but I do listen to white noise at night. That does help my monkey mind.

Sure.  and it's become an anchor. So it actually is difficult to not sleep without it now. For better or for worse, yeah. But I will sometimes listen to like binaural beats or listen to hypnotherapy kind of stuff, like before I'm going to sleep, like when I'm already kind of in a trans state and highly suggestible susceptible, that can actually be a good thing to reprogram myself and listen to like affirmations and listen to gratitude or listen to words of encouragement and things like that.

So I do that sometimes as well. You know, I definitely don't do tv, the phone, an iPad, a laptop in the bedroom. I protect the the bedroom and make it that sleep fortress. I do have the temperature cooler. I really don't read much in bed. I literally just try and make my bed just a, a place to sleep. So do have all the LEDs blacked out.

I do have plants in the room. I do have it, uh, the right temperature. Sometimes I do use, you know, lavender or something like that as a olfactory anchor. Mm-hmm.  like something to, you know, help me relax and get into that parasympathetic state. So I think that's, that's the what comes to mind right now.

Perfect. Okay. And then my last question on the personal note would be, what has been your biggest sleep aha moment or biggest change to your particular kind of, uh, sleep game, if you will? ? I just thought of a massive one that I didn't Oh, go ahead. So I'll say it right here for this one. And it was my biggest aha was when I started taping my mouth.

I was going to ask you, cuz when you said about the water and then I was wondering if that's in the morning or if there's mouth tape. Yeah. Share how that's been for you. That was a game changer. And I just, I used to buy like all these like little strips. These ones Yeah. That are specifically forced, but because I have facial hair, they just don't work that well.

So I use this like long strips of like the 3M kind of like paper, which is super cheap anyway. Yes, very cheap hack, cheaper. So just buy that And uh, I just like crisscross it like a, across my face. It's just a dramatic difference even if you are not apnic and hypoxic, which is, at one point I was using Ambien and I was literally going a minute without breathing.

Oh, oh yes, that's it. And I would wake up with blood in my mouth and like a uvula that was like the size of my throat from like being so agitated and I found out, I thought it was me having sleep apnea, but it was ambient. So I got off Ambien. Yeah, good. And the sleep tape was, was just profound for me. So that's a big, big hack.

Super helpful. And that's really changed my quality of sleep. Like literally like. Even four hours, feels like seven hours. It's a game changer for sure. And it's so cheap. You're meant to be a nasal breather, not a mouth breather. And I've even used the tape like on hikes when I'm at the gym, like you know things.

It sounds crazy, like people might think you're crazy, but if you train your body, yes, big deal. We will have much more resilient health and energy. It's a massive difference. Oh, absolutely. Such a good one. Great. Well, okay, so that gives us a insight into kind of some of your management of your sleep at the moment.

Oh. Are you using a sleep gadget or measurement or wearable at all? Or, or opting out of the, using the bio strapp. Yep. Okay. The bios strap. Great. Cool. And then, so my last question to you, I know we've alluded to the, to the book quite a lot throughout this conversation and uh, again, I'm really not meaning for it to be like a hard push and just from a place of, I know that there's so much value you're giving it for basically nothing in the, in the start of it anyway.

So like there is such a sense of urgency for people to get this into their hands, to really get deeper into. You know, step by step, laid out things that you can do for your sleep. So I'm really excited for you, but I wanted to give you a second for, to share different ways that people can learn more about what you're up to.

Of course, the book and, um, you know, follow what you're, what you're doing, what you're creating, the talks you're giving the podcast, all the thing. Yes. , that's awesome. So energy formula.com. You not only can learn about how to get the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, apple, all that kind of stuff. It is 99 cents through the month of April.

It will go up. This is a 400 page book, full color. Like literally front to back full color with 60 full color diagrams, over a hundred scientific citations. These formulators corners that go into all the brands, doses, et cetera. The supplements, resource hacks that go into the techniques, the apps, the all the tips that you can think of, devices.

There's surveys that can assess your progress in each chapter, and it's just a really incredible book that I'm so proud of. There's some great stories in there. There's a lot on resilience, there's a lot on science, but you also like the bonuses. With that 99 cents, you get a fasting for energy guide. That is over 25 pages that even has like fasting for women and what that looks like and how it's different advanced fasting, like super extended fast and autophagy gets into all that.

And then I have a hidden chapter on natural ancestral movement and then you get, uh, two free Q and as that I'm gonna do live. So it's really awesome, incredible value for 99 cents. There's a hard cover for 39 99, but it cost me 39 80 to make it because the. Full color and the best quality pages and binding and all that stuff.

So it's, well, as you were speaking, I was like, oh my God, I got the Kindle version. And as you were speaking, I'm like, I gotta get the hard cover actually, so that I can kind of write up on it. That's awesome. And then I recorded my Audible and that will be out within a month or two, so that's awesome.

Coming soon. And I'm proud I did that. You can go to sean wells.com, s h a w n w e L l S, and follow me there. I have like a weekly newsletter with like tons of tips, recipes, a podcast I have going on. I have guides like that. I put up, uh, every couple weeks on what supplement stacks to use that are cited.

And then I am on Instagram at Sean Wells, s h a w n, and I have tons of awesome content there. And then lastly, I'm on Clubhouse at biohacking. I've been doing a room almost every day, so check me out there. And then wherever Molly McLaughlin is, , I am there, fanboying. . So that's also where you can find me right back at you.

This was awesome. I'm so glad we were able to do part one and uh, I so appreciate your time. This is amazing. Again, everything we discussed will be in the show notes for sure. So lots of different links and will translate Sean's sort of his other language of all of his ability to speak and give us these, uh, insights that, uh, not everyone is able to speak with such eloquence.

So really cool. You, you can send me the transcripts and I will, I can review. Oh, fantastic. Amazing. All right, well we're on, we got a, we got a whole process for part one and then more to come for the, uh, the extras. So thank you so much. I really appreciate the time. I love you. Thank you, Molly. Thank you everyone for listening and DM me if you have any questions.

I'm here for you. Awesome. You've been listening to The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast, the number one podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday, I send out something that I call Molly's Monday Obsessions containing everything that I'm obsessing over in the world of sleep.

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