176: Alexandra Zatarain, Co-founder of Eight Sleep: How New Temperature Tech Could Be the Missing Piece To Your Best Night’s Rest Ever!

Welcome to the Sleep as a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as a Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world looks about sleep.

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Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness.

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And I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

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Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. It is an absolute honor to have the co founder of 8Sleep on the podcast today, a company that is not only our new sponsor, but one that is also taking the sleep world by storm for their innovation and really measurable ability to improve sleep by way of things like lowering sleeping heart rate, respiratory rate, improving nighttime HRV, heart rate variability.

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Lowering nighttime wake ups and boosting deep sleep numbers and so much more. I think you're going to be really fascinated with not only what they've created now, but also some of the things that are ahead. So the vision for this company and how this could impact sleep as a whole. So a little bit about our guests, Alexandra Zatarain is the co founder and VP of Brand and marketing at Eight Sleep, the world's first sleep fitness company, a marketer and brand builder.

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Alexandra has built the Eight Sleep brand and scaled the company's revenue from zero to its current state. She has done this by redefining a once dormant category. Changing the narrative around sleep through the creation of the sleep fitness movement. In 2017, Alexandra was named by Forbes to the 30 under 30 list in consumer technology.

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And in 2020, she was named by Inc as one of the top 100 female founders. Alexandra is also an angel investor in female founded companies as a. Scout for Clio Capital. She was raised in Tijuana, Mexico, and now lives in Miami.  So again, I think you're gonna be really fascinated with this conversation. There are a few things that I mention as frequently as cooling mattress toppers, and I'm excited to go into the details of why.

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I believe that if there's an area that you could invest in for your sleep, that this is one of them. And because they are a sponsor and longtime partner, they have hooked us up with a discount code for any one of you that might be considering testing this out. Sleep is a skill, all one word, check out for a discount.

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And we're going to get right into the podcast in just a moment, but first, a few words for from our sponsors, including Eight Sleep, please take a moment just to listen to the people that are helping to support this podcast, people and companies that are helping to support this podcast. It really makes a difference.

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It allows us to be able to create this content routinely, get this out to you all for free. So if you could do that, check them out, that would mean a lot.  If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep. And one of the first places that many people begin when they talk to me about sleep is they want to know what's the supplement I can take.

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Well, I got to say, I honestly don't take that many supplements nowadays for my sleep. And I'm very grateful for that. A lot of things you can do for free. However, one of the supplements that I do consistently take and have taken for ages is magnesium, specifically magnesium breakthrough. It's an all natural supplement that helps you reduce fatigue and sleep more peacefully.

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It even strengthens muscle and improves your heart and brain function. So while most magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum, magnesium breakthrough is the only magnesium supplement on the market that contains the optimal ratio of all three. All seven essential types of magnesium. So imagine having the strength and energy to get out of bed every morning and face the day boldly, courageously to be able to show up as your best self and keep that energy up throughout the day and into the night.

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So if you want to give it a try, go to bio optimizers. com forward slash sleep is a skill and you can use the code sleep. Sleep is a skill to get gifts with purchase up to two travel sized bottles of magnesium breakthrough. So you want to act fast on this. It's a limited time offer. Again, go to buy optimizers.com forward slash sleep is a skill. And I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by the results. So I think we all know that temperature regulation is key to getting those deep, restorative stages of sleep. But how many times have you woken up in the middle of the night, tossing and turning because you're too hot, thanks to your subpar bedding materials?

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I know I've certainly been there. This is where Coop Sleep comes in. They've designed a line of cooling products, including sheets and pillows that are specifically crafted to help you stay cool all night long. Coop Sleep's products are made with breathable moisture wicking materials that ensure you maintain an optimal sleep temperature so that you can rest in peace.

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Easy. Literally. What I love most about Coop Sleep is their attention to detail, their cooling pillows, for example, aren't just about the fabric. They also feature adjustable fill, which is allowing you to customize the firmness and the loft to your liking. So remember, side sleeping tends to be the position of choice from a sleep optimization perspective with back sleeping potentially putting you at risk for blocked airway, increased mouth breathing, et cetera.

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So the ability to set this up to your liking is a big, big deal. Additionally, coop has award winning cooling sheets that are six feet tall. Silky, smooth, incredibly soft and designed to keep you cool without sacrificing comfort. Even my husband likes them and he is a complete picky baby when it comes to fabrics and usually thinks everything is uncomfortable.

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Now, whether you're a hot sleeper or someone who just wants to optimize every aspect of your sleep environment, Coop Sleep has you covered. I personally use their products myself and because they're durable and easy to care for, I'm going to Which means they'll be a staple in your sleep routine for years.

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So if you're ready to upgrade your sleep experience, head on over to Coop Sleep, so it's spelled C O O P, and check out their range of cooling products. And because who doesn't love a great deal? You can use the code SLEEPISASKILL, all one word, at checkout for a special discount on your order.  Important question.

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Can you see the hand in front of your face in your bedroom? If so, you need to hear about our next sponsor who is revolutionizing the blackout shade space and finally making it easy and affordable to get a truly blacked out bedroom. So challenging in the past, right? So introducing you block out the ultimate solution for creating the perfect sleep environment, ensuring total darkness, comfort, and control.

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So why you block out in particular? Well, a hundred percent blackout guarantee comes with this product provides temperature comfort all year round. So you keep your room warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. You block out helps in enhancing your sleep quality by maintaining a comfortable temperature, regardless of the season.

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Um, Acoustic noise reduction. Enjoy a quieter sleeping environment with uBlockout shades designed to minimize external sounds that can disrupt your peace. Ideal for urban dwellers or anyone looking to reduce noise pollution. Customizable and easy to install. Tailored to fit your space with a simple 30 minute installation process, uBlockout makes it hassle free to achieve the perfect sleep setting, ensuring your bedroom is a sanctuary for sleep.

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And for listeners of the sleep is a skill podcast, use the code sleep is a skill for exclusive 10 percent off and embark on the journey to unparalleled sleep quality. Remember light is the number one external factor affecting our sleep with you. Block out. You're not just investing in a blackout shade.

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You're investing in your health, wellbeing, and quality of life. So again, go to you block out spelled the letter U block out. and use code sleep as a skill for a discount  and welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. I am very excited for today's conversation and for our guests and for the fact that now our guest is coming on and going to be sharing with us about A product that I truly believe if we could get in the hands of just about everyone, the world would be a better place.

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I sleep on this product every single night and excited to be partnering with them more exclusively to be able to share more of this information and how this can make such a difference for your sleep. What is this? We're talking about the Eight Sleep and we have Alexandra here. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

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Of course, so excited to be here. Yes, amazing. So maybe we could start at the beginning, how you found yourself at the helm of this like amazing unicorn of a company. Like, tell us everything.  You know, I have actually always been a good sleeper. So some people are like, well, why are you building in sleep?

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Getting to sleep is a lot of founders build. Products based on their own problems, but sleep hasn't been a problem for me yet. Thankfully.  And, um, I do have other co founders and my co founder Matteo, who's our CEO, he, at some point in his life started struggling with sleep and with his background as an athlete, he kind of dove into that problem with that mentality of what can I do to optimize this and how can I fix it?

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And that's what opened up this journey for us that we've been in for 10 years of utilizing technology to help people sleep better. I, joined my co founders in this journey because I, uh, understood pretty quickly after chatting with them about the possibilities. I realized that there was actually a lot that we could innovate in and not just build sort of, you know, CPG, like sort of like commodity goods, products, just, you know, betting or anything like that, but instead say, How can real advanced technology be used to solve problems?

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Um, that's what we focused on an eight sleep. That's what got me into this. What that's what I've been doing this for 10 years. And I've certainly discovered a lot about how to further optimize my good sleep. Oh, fantastic. Well, love that. And I'm very happy that you've gone into this because this is so important, making such a difference for so many people.

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And so maybe we could start about that, like, why does it make such a difference for so many people? Kind of just at its most basic of terms, why would this be so foundational? Yeah. So, you know, we discovered this Scientific evidence that already existed in the world about the fact that temperature was so important for people's sleep.

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And that's what really catapulted us into building the product that we have today to market, which the people know us for, which is the Pod. Uh, what the Pod does is it's using data in real time to understand how you're sleeping, if you're sleeping, what phase of sleep you're in, and then managing the temperature in both directions, both heating and cooling, so that you can fall asleep faster, get more deep sleep, and wake up more easily.

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So, um, that is the application of the science that had already been out there for many years that proved the influence in temperature to help people actually Reconcile sleep and stay asleep and get more deep sleep. So what we did is we just took technology and we product tested and then we actually proved that people sleep better on the pod.

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But it wasn't surprising, given that the science was already there. It is tremendously beneficial, particularly to people who feel really hot at night. They are sort of our most raving customer. So anyone who struggles with feeling really hot, which can be for many reasons, um, the pod is a lifesaver, is something that they can no longer sleep without.

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And we're really happy to hear that. But also for individuals like myself who don't feel hot at night, who don't struggle with sleep. However, Given the modern environments in which we sleep, most of us need a little bit of that help to optimize the temperature and make sure that we're allowing our bodies to go through the proper fluctuations during the night.

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So I also see a huge impact and I'm sure a lot of other of our users who warm it up during the night or cool it down very, very slightly are still getting the optimal benefits. Yes, absolutely. I was speaking to some people on your team and they're discussing kind of a mission to also get this information out to women as well.

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Why might women be an important group to understand that they could utilize something like this? Yeah. So, you know, women were much more complex in a lot of ways, but especially when it comes to the temperature of our bodies because of our hormonal cycles. While men have these like 24 hour cycles, we have these like 28 day cycles and we change so much throughout every day of that cycle.

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And so our needs in terms of how our basal body temperature is and just how we feel because of that, uh, really changed significantly. And that means that a product like the pod can help you personalize that temperature journey  each day of the cycle, right? It can be really set to a different degree. I certainly know for myself, I've um, as I've gotten older, I've gotten more in tune with those changes and how they feel and how that temperature is affecting during the night.

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And I think a lot of women listening to this can relate to those moments during your cycle when you wake up in the middle of the night and you feel really hot or you certainly are like, you know, fully like in this like night sweats where you kind of feel cold. It's like a cold sweat where you're like fully like drenched.

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Yes. Um, it's all these temperature fluctuations and so you can have products like the pod that are just helping you manage the temperature accordingly. You can certainly avoid that interruption in the middle of the night because it keeps you comfortable. Oh, for sure. No, I love that. And because it seems like, you know, certainly Eight Sleep has really latched on for a lot of high performing men.

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We certainly see so many people that are sharing and raving about this product. So we also know, of course, this is going to be impactful for both genders. But I love that you're also making this mission to get this out. For women as well. So, you know, all across the board, we can all sleep better. Now, when we had Nicole on the podcast a while back, so if anyone wants to listen to, we did another podcast with eight and we went deep, deep into the science and really mind that for some of what are some of the practical takeaways.

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How can we utilize that science for our own gain with sleep? And but at the same time, I was curious, too. So for you with eight, like, if you are seeing consistently that now you've brought in this kind of banana shape, you know, approach, because when Nicole was on, they were just bringing this out, I believe.

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So I'm curious, can you walk us through this? And this is this autopilot option, and as well as your option to be able to see? set your own dynamic shape throughout the course of the night. Like why would anyone want to do this? So if someone's listening and they, they don't have a cooling mattress topper, how might this be beneficial to really get them their best results with their sleep?

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Yeah, so one thing that happens. During the night is that the temperature changes, right? And that's what you're mentioning with this banana shape and sort of all that science that Nicole, who's our head of clinical research discussed with you, the temperature changes in our bodies. And so the environment that we will remain comfortable in needs to change as well.

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Because if these temperature of sort of my body versus the environment starts going in different direction, it's when you start feeling cold or hot. And if you feel cold or hot, you're going to be uncomfortable. You're going to wake up. You have these sort of micro wake ups to, to a different degree. You could remember that you may not remember them, but, um, you are waking up.

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And so that's what you're trying to avoid. And that's why we developed this algorithm called autopilot. What autopilot does is that it puts your sleep on autopilot. So that you just have to fall asleep and then autopilot will take care of you throughout the night. What it does is when you get the pod, you onboard, we'll ask you a bunch of questions, we'll try to get to know you.

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Because this algorithm is really creating a blueprint and that understanding of who you are, um, individually. This is where the use of technology comes in. This is where we're using machine learning and AI and all these things that sound really crazy and sort of applying them to really have impact in someone's life.

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And that algorithm is going to be acting in real time every single night. It's going to look at how much deep sleep you had the previous night. Do you need more of that tonight? How much REM sleep did you have the previous night? Do you need more tonight? And if you need more, what is the temperature level that is going to give you more based on how you sleep, based on what it knows about you and what keeps you comfortable.

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You will give it feedback as well, right? So of course, it's going to need to be sort of calibrated to your own needs. It's going to know what's happening in your local weather. It's going to know what's happening in the. bedroom temperature. So all of that information while you're sleeping is just being used to keep you at the perfect temperature.

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Amazing. Yeah, maybe we could go in a little bit more on all those analytics that you do give for people, including things like how much you're snoring throughout the course of the night. We have so many people that technology is helping them to discover that they might have certain sleep disorders that are wildly common.

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Or just start to address that maybe they have more snoring than they realize, especially if they sleep alone or something. So tell us a little bit about that, because that's particularly of interest when we're looking at optimizing our sleep. If something's at play there, we can get at the source of that and fix that.

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Yeah, we're huge fans of data, as you can imagine. And I know there's some people who get scared about tracking a lot, or maybe they get anxiety from that. But yeah, for the most part, we have a solution. seen the benefits that that could have for individuals and the power that it brings to knowing what's happening with your sleep and your health.

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And so the analytics are an important part for us because it's how we know when you're sleeping and how you're sleeping and how we can actually tailor the temperature and now also the elevation with our latest product. But also like you said, it's information you are getting. So when you open the app, you can see that, um, whether you use a wearable or not at night or not.

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The pods gonna track you so you don't have to do anything. You don't have to wear anything. You don't have to activate any button. It just does it on its own. So you'll see things like when you fell asleep, how long you slept for the different sleep phases, your heart rate at rest, your heart rate variability, your respiratory rate.

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And these have been these like baseline. Metrics that we've had now for a few years, and as you mentioned, snoring is one of the new ones, so we just released our snoring algorithm in May, and um, that was really exciting because the way that it was developed was by not, we don't use microphones, so it's all based on these vibrations happening in your body, basically like Like if it's a stethoscope, uh, we, there's no microphones, there's no recordings, which means two important things.

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Privacy, right? There's no microphones in your bedroom, which is important. Um, every other product in the market is doing it through microphones, but we don't think that that was the best way to go about it. And two, um, it can actually detect Who in the bed is snoring? You know, so yeah, you have two people in the bed and it's a microphone recording.

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It might not be very accurate at knowing exactly who is the person snoring in that moment of the night. And with our snoring report, you see when you were snoring in the night for how long in totality in the night you were snoring for and the intensity of that. So we'll give you the sort of intensity rating.

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Um, that's important because Like you said, there's a lot of people who suffer from it. There's a lot of people who don't know they're snoring, but also it is a potential indicator of other conditions that can be pretty damaging to your health and can develop over time like a sleep apnea. So it's important that we stay alert in terms of how that snoring is behaving every night.

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How long of a percentage of the night are you snoring for? We have some people in my team and our team when I sleep and I won't name names, but like who snore for like over 90 percent of the night. So you can imagine what that discovery was like. It means you probably want to go see a doctor.  Wow. Okay.

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That's amazing. And you also pointed to some of the new components that just came out, like the elevation aspect. Maybe if we can talk a little bit more about that too, because, you know, so many people that are listening either are snoring or suspect that they might have sleep apnea or maybe their partner does.

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So maybe walk us through that offering and how that might serve them or their partner. Yeah, you know, elevation is that next, um, environmental or, um, element. We say that at Eggsleep we always want to tackle like all the things that get in the way of a good night's sleep. We did that with temperature and now we're doing it with elevation and we'll tackle every other one, hopefully.

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Um, it's, it's the next one that we're conquering and the reason why we wanted to work in elevation is because of how disruptive snoring can be, yeah, to sleep. So we created this base that is Really a three inch base that slips between your mattress and your bed frame. And it's connected to all of our intelligence and autopilot.

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And as soon as it detects that you or your partner are snoring, it raises your head and we developed it in a way where, you know, the team did so much work to make it move very slowly, very quietly. It moves up. Once you stop snoring or it reduces the snoring, it moves back down without waking you up or waking your partner up.

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So it's a beautiful piece of technology that is really helping people reduce or completely eliminate their snoring through the night. Wow. And does it move up on both sides or just on one side? Okay, so that it's more seamless. So if you're like cuddling with a person, you're not Okay, great.  You don't have to change, you know, the mattress you already have, like, you know, it's all basically just added to the setup that you already have and you get going with the benefits.

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Very cool. Okay, so for anyone that's tuning in and they're trying to decide, like, they're dealing with the, wake ups throughout the course of the night. They're very clear that the temperature component could make a difference, or maybe inquiring or want to see could the temperature piece make a difference.

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What would you say some of the kind of competitive edge that eight is bringing to the table versus other options that are out there for cooling mechanisms? Yeah, you know, for cooling specifically, I'd say for anyone who's considering or needs a solution to cool themselves down, the first thing I would watch out for are, um, there's products in the market that talk about cooling, but they don't actually cool down below your, like, body temperature.

room temperature, right? And a lot of those products are going to feel cold at touch, but they're going to very quickly absorb the heat that's being dissipated by our bodies. Our bodies are really hot. And so what you want to instead invest in are products that will actually Dissipate that heat that are going to be able to cool down and stay cool because they're have mechanisms to continuously dissipate that heat.

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They're basically extracting the heat that's being absorbed by the product and releasing it somewhere else. So you're going to continue to be in contact with something that actually stays cool. That is very, very important. So, um, unfortunately there's a lot of products out there that are misleading.

They're gel based, they're fabrics that just feel cool at touch, um, even air based products, so sort of fans blowing into your environment, they're not able to actually get that cool. It's the reason why water based products are the most successful at actually cooling down, that's what you see from ACs to fridges, and they all use water because it's much, much better at actually cooling.

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Absorbing the heat from that environment and like removing it. Um, so that's the first thing I would say, whether it's the pot or not, pay attention to that because otherwise you'll be wasting your money. Um, for us at Aidsleep, what we are known for is having the most effective, the highest quality product on the market, and obviously it's the pot.

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See all of the intelligence behind it. So the fact that it is tracking you and your partner at the same time that that tracking has been validated to be very accurate. And that with that information, we're managing the temperature for you. So you don't have to do anything. So if that's something that you think is going to give you that extra boost and it's going to make your experience better, and it's a more beautiful and premium and high quality product.

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We'd love to have you as part of our community, and if you don't think that's for you or you're not there yet, you know, just watch out for investing in something that will actually cool you down. That is the number one thing.  If you've tuned into the show or followed any of our content here at Sleep is a Skill, you may have heard that Everyone that we work with, where's the or ring.

And as a result, we have amassed a very large database of or ring users and get to see what really moves the needle for people when it comes to their sleep measurably. Now, because we have so much data around sleep optimization, many ask what they can do to improve their sleep quality. And for years, my answer has been that one of the few things I've seen makes such an overnight difference is the use of a quality cooling mattress topper.

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Not just any ordinary topper that claims to be cooling with like gels or what have you, but an actual cooling topper that uses water and can be dynamically adjusted to suit your unique needs and preferences. Now, this is why I am so excited to announce that 8 Sleep is now an official sponsor of the podcast.

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I have tested various cooling mattress toppers and fan systems over the years, and none of them have come close to the innovative and customizable, seamless nature of the Eight Sleep system. Not only does it have an autopilot feature to intelligently adjust the temperature of the topper to work in alignment with your body's needs, but it also has additional features that truly set it apart.

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So, with Eight Sleep, you can enjoy advanced sleep tracking, allowing you to monitor key metrics like heart rate, heart rate variability, and sleep stages, all integrated seamlessly into the app. It also has a dual zone temperature control, which means that you and your partner can each set your own ideal sleep temperature.

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Plus the gentle rise wake up technology uses temperature and vibration to wake you up gently and naturally avoiding the jarring sound of an alarm, but it doesn't stop there. There's more, more, more. So the system even includes a smart alarm feature that wakes you up during your lightest sleep phase. I know a lot of people have asked me about this and this is included in here within a customizable time limit.

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Window ensuring you wake up feeling refreshed and ready to start your day. And for those of you who struggle with snoring eight, sleep has an anti snore feature that adjusts your sleep environment in real time to help reduce snoring and improve overall sleep quality. So this is truly a game changer for anyone serious about optimizing their sleep.

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So if you're ready to take your sleep to the next level, head on over to eight, sleep and use the code. Sleep is a skill, all one word at checkout for a discount.  Today, I want to talk to you about something that often flies under the radar, but is absolutely crucial for great sleep minerals. Now you've heard me talk about circadian rhythms, light exposure, temperature control, and more, but let's dive into the foundational elements that fuel our body's ability to sleep deeply and restoratively specifically minerals.

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Our modern lifestyle with its processed foods and environmental stressors can leave us depleted of essential minerals. This depletion can mess with our sleep quality, leading to issues like restless legs, poor sleep initiation, and waking up in the middle of the night. Enter beam minerals. Beam minerals are designed to replenish your body's essential mineral levels.

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Providing the building blocks your body needs for optimal health. And this includes better sleep. What I love about beam is that they use a hundred percent bio available liquid minerals, which means your body can actually absorb and utilize them instantly without any fillers or additives. Magnesium for example, is known as nature's relaxant helping to calm the nervous system, support muscle relaxation, and some argue by extension can promote deep restful sleep.

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Okay. Beam's magnesium is sourced in a way that ensures maximum absorption and effectiveness, making it a key part of my sleep routine. But beam doesn't stop there. They've created a comprehensive blend that includes other vital minerals like potassium, calcium, and trace minerals that work synergistically to support your overall health.

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And of course your sleep. The result, you wake up feeling more refreshed, more balanced, and ready to take on the day. So if you've been struggling with sleep and feel like you've tried everything, it might be time to look at what's happening on a cellular level. Beam Minerals can help fill in those gaps and give your body the support it needs for truly restorative sleep.

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So head on over to Beam Minerals, spelled B E A M. Today and use the code sleep as a skill, all one word at checkout to get a special discount on your order. Your body and your sleep will thank you. One of the things that was unique for me was the comfort level because, you know, I've tried lots of different cooling options in the bed and some of the, you know, you got fans, you got other coolers, but often you might feel the thing that you're laying on just feels kind of not seamless, whereas the experience with A is just very seamless and comfortable.

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And for people that, you know, are brand new to this conversation too, with the seamless option for both sides and both people in the bed to create their own unique environment so that the person that sleeps hot can get support and the person that sleeps cold can also get that all in one bed. So was there any additional thoughts because I'm about to be testing the The new release, so I'm excited for that.

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I think it's coming like any day. So, was the continued attention to comfort a focus for this next one? Yes, definitely. As you can imagine, when you're adding something into someone's bed that they purchased and they already love, that is a The number one metric that we look at is, you know, we call it for this pot for that.

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We just released invisible comfort. That was the goal that we gave to our team is how do you make it invisible and perceptible. So when you install it into whatever mattress that you already invested in, you don't notice that it's there. If anything, you feel like it just made it better. Um, so absolutely is the number one thing we, we watch out for.

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And like you said, our product is designed to fit into any bed, like a mattress cover, and it fits on both sides of the bed, which means it. It remains perfectly wrapped up. It doesn't move around. Um, and so making it seamlessly integrate is a huge, huge goal. So for pot four, we completely redesigned the entire product.

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Pot four is completely different from pot three. Um, it was not just an. Income adult. It was a complete redesign, both on the cover and the hub. So the cover that goes in the bed and the hub that manages all sort of the cooling, the connectivity,  um, with the cover itself on the comfort, it was a full redesign to reach this new invisible comfort level that we had as a, as a Nordstar internally.

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And what we did for that is that we got rid of what we had before as a great system that we used to call our active grid and instead incorporated these. Super thin, malleable tubes that are running through, um, a, a kind of pattern on each side of the bed. Um, and the foam that they are embedded in also is different and has a, not only a different material, but a different setup, a different design.

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So the whole thing is completely different. I think that's what has made such an impact in the market and people have been raving about because you can feel the difference, especially for those who come from. a pot three to a pot four, they're suddenly like, okay, I get it now. I get why it's  been redesigned.

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Excited. Okay. Amazing. And with that, then the release of this was quite well received. Is that correct? So I think it was selling out and all kinds of things were happening. Where are we at with that now? Is, can we all still get one if we want one? What's the latest?  Yeah. Yeah. It was really well received.

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Um, you know, we hadn't launched a product since the end of launched the pot three and. August 2022. So it had been a little bit. So people are very excited to see the new innovation. Um, much better received than we were expecting. So it took us a little bit to catch up from those orders in the last, um, six, eight weeks.

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But people can still get it, of course. So we're continuing to produce that product. Um, you can find it on our website on eight sleep dot com, and it's both available just as part four, which is just the cover. You want to track your sleep and your health. You want to manage the temperature. You want to see how you snore.

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You can have that to your bed. And if you want to actually have the elevation component and reduce your snoring or completely also, you can have different positions. So while you're if you're reading or lounging in bed, etcetera, like an adjustable base, you can get the extra base with pot for ultra. Yeah, and there's appears to be so many cool new features around the tapping options and things that are local to the product.

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So tapping to cool down, tapping to warm up, tapping to snooze, tapping to elevate. So for people that might not want to have to be like always connected to their phones, especially in bed, this is kind of solving that problem. Yes. Yes. We designed that feature exactly with that intention of you don't have to use your phone to manage the product at night.

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Yeah. A lot of people don't want their phone in their bedrooms even when they're sleep, when they're going to bed. Exactly. So interesting. Well, it's so exciting. And what do you see ahead for eight sleep in the future? You know, I know it's already with this new release and some of the emphasis on things like the snoring, supporting apneas, et cetera.

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What do you see as a vision for the direction of AI? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, we want to tackle every single problem that gets in the way of a good night's sleep. That is what we work towards. So anything that we can solve for through the knowledge that we have with the data, through actual technology,  we will keep building.

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So You will see more products come, come to market from us, um, more solutions, whether they're hardware products or software. Uh, we want to know what people are struggling with and how we can help.  Amazing. Random question. Why is it called eight sleep? I actually don't know the answer to this.  Yeah, it's because of the eight hours of sleep you should be getting every night.

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I was wondering that. Okay, that makes sense. Very cool.  Awesome. So every person that we do bring on, we do ask four questions. But before we get to that, are there any other things that we want to make sure we address in this conversation for people that are thinking You know, thinking about getting and cooling a mattress topper or thinking about upgrading their current aid, any kind of other thoughts to add in?

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You know, I never like to push people to get a product like I feel like it's, it's weird because that's, um, I lead our marketing at eight sleep, but I, we really do believe that ultimately what we should care about as a company is  make people excited about sleep. Yeah. Get people to adopt good sleeping habits.

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So the first thing I would say is if you are struggling with temperature during sleep, just even being aware that that's the problem that you're having is a great, great, great first step. Yes. A lot of people don't realize that it's temperature and they are blaming something else, right? So just getting aware of how temperature may be interrupting you and then starting to try simpler solutions you may have at home from what you do before you go to bed and whether you want to try a hot shower and whether you want to try not working out in the evening and not know having alcohol and maybe not eating heavy meals, anything that could like elevate your

Based body temperature, you know, and just changing some habits and see what happens and sort of just experiment a little bit.

Um, and if you are ready to commit to a cooling product like the pod, um, just choose something that is well researched and that has actual proof that it cools you down. Because what you want if now if you've tested everything and you've realized that you need a way to keep yourself cool, then just make sure you choose a product that will actually cool you down and a company that will give you a good service for that product.

So true, couldn't agree more. And I like what you said too about the fact that so many people don't realize that temperature could be at the source of their wake ups. So for the amount of people that wear, we have a really large Oura Ring database, because every person we work with wears the Oura Ring.

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So we're in those stats every single day. And so commonly people will, and this literally just happened today, so commonly people will say, uh, I'm waking up all the time. Should I, you know, I got to wake up to go pee. And so should I move back? Like when I had my last drink or whatever, you know, glass of water, the whole thing.

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And so commonly it's this misattribution  error where we think that it's all about the liquids we had when so commonly we're being awoken for other reasons. And temperature being a huge one. And then because you've been asleep for hours, yeah, you could go to the bathroom, but it's not necessarily the reason.

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It just happens to be there when that happens. So have you found that too? Like these reports or insights or research or what have you, where so many people are surprised by how much this helps support minimizing sleep fragmentation?  Yes, yes. And that's why a lot of people see the claims that we have, the validation that we have in our product and they say, well, how is it possible that it gives me up to an extra hour of sleep every night?

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Right. Like, well, cause you're not realizing that a lot of those interruptions that you're having are actually because of those temperature fluctuations. And especially in those moments when you're going from one to the other. sleep cycle into the next and you're sort of vulnerable, right? And your body's more, more vulnerable and you wake up.

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So that's what the pod does is it helps you fall asleep faster by giving you the right temperature. It helps you stay asleep. So, um, that's how then it ends up resulting in that benefit. And that's why people feel it. Um, yeah, it's pretty magical. I think it's what we want to see is we want to see more people understand all of the influences around our sleep so that you can manage them, uh, either with the tools you have available in your habits or just the tools you have at home or in products that are being developed like it sleep and many other companies that are starting to innovate in the space as well and like adopt them if that's what you need.

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Yes. Any possibility, you know, just again towards the future, any possibility of a travel size eight sleep down the road?  You know, we get asked that a lot because we work with a lot of athletes, uh, who are ambassadors or investors or just like, customers and so they travel a lot. We actually have a few units right now, um, at the Olympic Village.

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Um, and so  it's the first time that we actually, we made some custom size for those because the beds are a size that we don't make. Um, so we just do that at the request of some of our Olympians. But, um, We think that what people really want are the pods in every bed. We're not sure that people actually want to pack a pod and take an extra piece of luggage.

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So what we're working towards is more how can we partner with the hotels and the places where our customers travel the most. And how do we get those, uh, hotel, uh, chains and hotel groups. to invest in these types of solutions, uh, whether it's the pod, whether it's blackout shades, whether it's better insulation in the rooms and the noise, uh, also from the windows, right?

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Like we want these places that are meant to be places of rest to really invest in giving us the best setup. Yeah, absolutely. Do we foresee that on the horizon? Are there any hotels that are doing anything like that or that they're on the road? Yeah, okay. Yeah, there are and they've been in the past and there are so I think it's more how we need to make it a big thing and I think it does start from consumers being the ones that are really asking for it and voting with their dollars and rewarding the hotels that are investing and setting us up for success with sleep.

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Totally. Ah, love that. Well, exciting because that's one of the only downsides I will share to the listener is that once you get a cooling mattress topper, when you start traveling, you see what a difference it makes on your stats when you don't have it available. Oh my God. Totally. Okay. So really, really great and excited to hear how you're managing your own sleep, especially since I hear you.

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It's like, you know, sleep has not been a problem for you, you know, throughout your life. And then you've gotten the added benefit of just happened to be able to sleep on the best of the best so that it's even further and after we can learn a lot from people that effortlessly are sleeping well, because they're just clearly whatever they're doing is working.

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So our first question is, what would you say currently your nightly sleep routine is looking like right now? It's very simple. Um, I think that because I'm a good sleeper, thankfully, I don't have to think about things so much, but keeping it simple also helps for those that are struggling. Um, what I do is I don't drink alcohol and I haven't been drinking alcohol for, I don't know, maybe like five years now.

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So, um, that certainly helps. I tend to eat pretty healthy for the most part. Um, and I don't work out in the evenings. And so part of my night routine is just, um, Having a good healthy dinner and not being at my computer after 7 30 p. m. I'm on my phone, but you know, what can I do? But for the rest is starting to get my mind into that flow of relaxation as much as I can.

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Um, of course, everything in my bedroom is automated. So, So the temperature, um, from my thermostat automatically goes to 73, which may sound really warm for most people, but it's what works for me.  So 73 Fahrenheit is what we found that works well. Um, and then the pot itself starts preparing ahead of time to the proper temperature, which for me is a plus three to plus four in a pot settings.

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It's warm  and the bed elevation changes as well to a relaxing position. So that when I get in bed, it's, it's not fully. flat and it's not fully reading when it's kind of this lounging position. So I get in bed and I can just do the last couple things on my phone and then fall asleep. The lights are really, really subtle and dimmed down.

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So I think all of that puts me in the right mood, um, to then fall asleep in the most relaxed state possible. Amazing. Okay, great. And then, uh, your morning sleep routine with the argument that how we start our day could impact our sleep. Anything noteworthy there. Well, I don't use an alarm. I think it's part of the fact that I'm pretty consistent with my schedule.

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So I go to bed between 9. 30 and 10 p. m. on most days, even on weekends. And so I wake up naturally between 6. I don't have kids yet, so I don't have a reason to wake up earlier or to be awake at a certain time. And I just wake up whenever my body wakes up, which is a blessing. So yeah, I start my day without having to like snooze or anything like that.

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When I do need an alarm, I'll use the pod alarm, which will vibrate very gently underneath my body. Um, and I just, as soon as I wake up, I do get out of bed. So I try to not. Forge myself or something, you know, not push it and not like just try to stay in bed Um, especially if i've already gotten a good amount of sleep.

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I just get up and get going. Um, I have a dog so I'll get up and that's the first thing I do is I'll go get the dog and make sure he can get out of the house, do whatever he needs to do. So that's like just what I sprint towards. But yeah, it's just keeping it like very simple. I'm not a big coffee drinker either.

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So it's not like I'm rushing to get a cup of coffee. Um, right. And I don't, I don't need it. I sleep a lot. I sleep almost eight to nine hours every night. Wow, look at that. That is the goal and then not needing the coffee. Amazing. And then what might we see on your nightstand or if you're traveling, maybe proverbial nightstand, other things in your ambience, environment?

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Yeah, I always have water. Um, because at times in the middle of the night when I wake up as you were describing before, I want a sip of water and it's usually some bottle like this. I would have right now like some simply green sparkling water that is a little bit cold. Yeah. Um, I'll have hand cream. I like to just moisturize my hands before I go to bed.

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I  love that. And my phone and that's pretty much it. Um, there's usually a book that I never read in bed because if I start reading in bed, I'll fall asleep after. Two minutes. I'm actually not making progress on the book, but it's there. So there's always That  I usually read in the living room. Oh, I love it.

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So good. And yes, the simplicity That's literally one of the things we hear time and time again is the people that are sleeping Well often it's like you're not relying on all kinds of things to get you to sleep It's like your life works to support great sleep. So really good And then the last question is, to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game, or said another way, maybe biggest aha moment in managing your sleep?

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I mean, absolutely the pod. Um, even if I was a good sleeper, I now suffer when I travel, and I travel like, 60 percent of the year. I'm not at home. So it's really, really difficult. Yeah, but the other one I would say is finding a pillow that I really love. Oh, so that is a big game changer for me. Um, because I don't struggle with sleep because I may not feel hot at night.

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Right. Right. Um, for me, the biggest unlock I've noticed in terms of getting great sleep, wherever I am in the world is a good pillow. Pillow that I actually like. So when possible, um, I'll ask hotels for a pillow that is more similar to what I have in home, or, you know, I  travel often to New York where we have our HQ and I have a one of My favorite pillows at the office.

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I can keep with me whatever hotel I'm at. So the pillow is a big, big thing and I think a lot of people may be underestimating how important that pillow is. So true. What was the pillow that you ended up landing on or like maybe you're oscillating through different ones, but is there ones that you would recommend?

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So it's the one that we sell on our website, which is our carbon air pillow. And the reason is because I chose the one that was on your website. So  it's kind of circular when we were choosing which pillow, uh, to, to put up on our site and sell from eight sleep, we went through a broad selection and I thought this pillow was the best one and the most comfortable and the most premium.

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And so it's the one that we sell, which is a, a definitely a customer favorite, but it's also my personal favorite. Oh, you're kidding. I'm looking at it now. That's so interesting. Great. And so is that one that works for like all types of sleepers or any thoughts like side sleeper back sleeper? You know, it's very personal.

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Okay. So we do find that you got to try it. Sure. I'm A stomach sleeper, which is not great. I know for my lower back, but I am a stomach sleeper and it works well for me. But as you know, it depends right on how even people's like height and body shapes and all that, what they're going to find comfortable.

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Oh, totally. No, I get that with the stomach sleeping. Both my husband and I are. like at our core stomach sleepers, like for a long time, our formative years, we have kind of trained ourselves onto our sides, but there's every so often just, I don't know, you're out of sorts, you're traveling, you're not as comfy or something.

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And then it's also feels like going home or something to that stomach position. It's like, so good. Okay. That's a great call of the pillow piece. You know, it's interesting. I don't think I've had anyone mentioned the pillow conversation and yet it's so true. Why aren't we addressing this? So good. And then lastly,  for anyone now that's thinking, okay, you're getting my gears turning.

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I want to check this out more or test it out. How can they check out more about Eat Sleep? And then how can they follow you and be a part of your world? Find everything about 8sleep at 8sleep. com or at 8sleep on socials. So if you have questions, you can ping us there through any social channel or through our website.

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And you can find me on socials as well. Mostly Twitter is probably where I like to connect the most with our member base. Our community is very, very active on X. or Twitter. Um, so you can find both myself and my co founders, Mateo, their CEO is really active there. So if you have questions around sleep or the product, or if you have the product and you have feedback as well, sure.

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We love to hear that. What else do you want to see build? What other solutions can we bring to market? We want to know directly from our community. Oh, I love that. So cool. Well, very exciting. I say so common. I mean, I just gave a talk yesterday and in the talk I was saying, you know, cooling mattress droppers came up and I shared that out of all the stats that we look at on a routine basis, I rarely see anything that we can bring in or purchase that can make such a overnight change to your stats as something like a cooling mattress dropper.

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And what you're putting out there is. It's definitely at the forefront premium. So exciting. So really appreciate the work you do and for taking the time today to educate us more. Yes. Happy to share. Thank you for having me. Yes. Thank you.  You've been listening to the sleep as a skill podcast, the top podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level.

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Every Monday I send out the sleep obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet. Planet fun facts. I've never missed a Monday for over five years and counting. And it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep. Head on over to sleep is a skill.com forward slash newsletter to sign up.

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