179: Dr. Joe DiDuro, Creator of ProNeurolight: Latest Breakthroughs in Sleep Science and Neurometabolic Solutions for Optimal Brain Health and Deep Sleep Mastery!

Welcome to the Sleep As A Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep As A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world thinks about sleep.


Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness.

And I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

Welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. My guest today is a return guest. It's Dr. Joe DiDuro, and he has been on in the past to talk about red light. And today we, of course, will be touching more on red light, but we're also going to be touching on things like HRV and So much more. So I think you're going to really enjoy today's conversation.

But first, a little bit about our guests. So Dr. Joe DiDuro is dedicated to helping people live a more fulfilling life. His passion is to help people by teaching them how they can create neuro regeneration and healing in their own lives. In his 40 years of clinical experience, he has come to understand the very low quality of life that people affected by neuroregenerative diseases experience and that their disability touches every aspect of their existence, personal, social, and family.

Dr. Doraro has made it his life's work to help end this suffering, initiate their recovery and restore their humanity.  Dr. DiDuro has published and presented over 32 scientific papers around the globe. He has lectured to medical groups across Europe and North and South America. He is a collaborator with scientific experts worldwide.

He is currently moderator of the T P B M T brain research consortium, transcranial photobiomodulation therapy, and a highly sought after cognitive neurotherapist and brain fitness coach. He is the host and moderator of the brain plus T P M B T virtual summit where 40 of the world's leading scientific research experts in transcranial photobiomodulation present their research to the world.

He's a highly regarded reviewer for scientific journals, including the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease. He has been featured on Fox, NBC, and CBS. Now we're going to jump right into the podcast, but first, a few words from our sponsors.  If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep.

And one of the first places that many people begin when they talk to me about sleep is they want to know what's up. What's the supplement I can take? Well, I gotta say, I honestly don't take that many supplements nowadays for my sleep and I'm very grateful for that. A lot of things you can do for free.

However, one of the supplements that I do consistently take and have taken for ages is magnesium specifically. specifically magnesium breakthrough. It's an all natural supplement that helps you reduce fatigue and sleep more peacefully. It even strengthens muscle and improves your heart and brain function.

‍

So while most magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum, magnesium breakthrough is the only magnesium supplement on the market that contains the optimal ratio of all three. All seven essential types of magnesium. So imagine having the strength and energy to get out of bed every morning and face the day boldly, courageously to be able to show up as your best self and keep that energy up throughout the day and into the night.

‍

So if you want to give it a try, go to bio optimizers. com forward slash sleep is a skill and you can use the code sleep. Sleep is a skill to get gifts with purchase up to two travel sized bottles of magnesium breakthrough. So you want to act fast on this. It's a limited time offer. Again, go to buy optimizers.

‍

com forward slash sleep is a skill. And I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by the results.  We all know that temperature regulation is key to getting those deep restorative stages of sleep, but how many times have you woken up in the middle of the night tossing and turning because you're too hot thanks to your subpar bedding materials?

‍

I know I've certainly been there. And now this is where Coop Sleep Goods comes in. They've designed a line of cooling products, including sheets and pillows that are specifically crafted to help you stay cool all night long. Coop sleep goods products are made with breathable moisture wicking materials that ensure you maintain an optimal sleep temperature so you can rest easily.

‍

It's easy. Literally what I love most about coupe sleep goods is their attention to detail. They're cooling pillows, for example, aren't just about the fabric. They also feature adjustable fills, allowing you to customize the firmness and loft to your liking. Remember side sleeping tends to be the position of choice from a sleep optimization perspective with back sleeping, potentially putting you at risk for blocked airway, increased mouth breathing, et cetera.

‍

Additionally. Coop Sleep Goods has award winning cooling sheets that are silky smooth, incredibly soft and designed to keep you cool without sacrificing comfort. Even my husband likes them and he is a complete picky baby when it comes to fabrics and usually thinks everything is uncomfortable. So whether you're a hot sleeper or just someone who wants to optimize every aspect of your sleep environment, Coop Sleep Goods has you covered.

‍

I personally use their products myself and because they're durable and easy to care for, which means they'll be a staple in your sleep routine for years to come. So if you're ready to upgrade your sleep experience, head on over to coop sleep goods. com forward slash sleep is a skill. So it's spelled C O O P S L E E P G O O D S dot com forward slash sleep is a skill and check out their range of cooling products.

‍

Important question. Can you see the hand in front of your face in your bedroom? If so, you need to hear about our next sponsor who is revolutionizing the blackout shade space and finally making it easy and affordable to get a truly blacked out bedroom. So challenging in the past, right? So introducing you block out the ultimate solution for creating the perfect sleep environment, ensuring total darkness, comfort, and control.

‍

So why you block out in particular? Well, a hundred percent blackout guarantee comes with this product provides temperature comfort all year round. So you keep your room warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. You block out helps in enhancing your sleep quality by maintaining a comfortable temperature, regardless of the season, a hundred percent.

‍

Acoustic noise reduction. Enjoy a quieter sleeping environment with uBlockout Shades designed to minimize external sounds that can disrupt your peace. Ideal for urban dwellers or anyone looking to reduce noise pollution. Customizable and easy to install. Tailored to fit your space with a simple 30 minute installation process, uBlockout makes it hassle free to achieve the perfect sleep setting, ensuring your bedroom is a sanctuary for sleep.

‍

Acoustic noise reduction. And for listeners of the sleep is a skill podcast, use the code. Sleep is a skill for exclusive 10 percent off and embark on the journey to unparalleled sleep quality. Remember light is the number one external factor affecting our sleep with you block out. You're not just investing in a blackout shade.

‍

You're investing in your health, wellbeing, and quality of life. So again, go to you block out spelled the letter U block out and use code sleep as a skill for a discount  and welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. A returning guest. Oh my goodness. So happy to have you here. Thanks so much for taking the time.

‍

Thanks for all. Great to be here again.  Totally. And I know we had a fantastic conversation a few years back, and we were just kind of regaling over that before hitting record. I know we got on a lot of dove into a lot of topics around traumatic brain injury, red light, we touched on HRV. So now today we're going to be shifting gears into some new content.

‍

And maybe it could begin to share a little bit about. Why for you this is such an important area when we talk about sleeping a skill and I know you're quite skilled yourself Even measurably with the whoop numbers, which I think people might be interested in but yeah Just kind of share a little bit about that Well, I mean, thank you molly and it's great to have be here with the listeners Hopefully we're going to give us some good insights and you know As I said, I have my book the new book and that's kind of what we were talking about.

‍

I have a molly Mollie Eastman quote on the back. Very excited about that. I'm a big fan of that book, by the way. Thank you for putting that together. I know that took a lot. This is a couple of years, right? And it's, uh, you know, a thousand references and it sort of talks about the story and, you know, it, even though it's there, you know, we, we're really trying to get the point across that light.

photobiomodulation, our thing, is circadian medicine. Yes. And you got to kind of use it that way. You know, when you're talking about putting light on in the doctor's office at 12 o'clock, you know, versus doing it at home in your bed, you know, before bed, and then when you wake up. Has a whole different thing that's sort of like the  where we want to push this this scenario and and that's really a cutting edge type of thing and I know you're on the forefront of this and so are your speakers.

‍

And because that's kind of what you focus on, right? Is this circadian medicine you're really on the forefront, right? I'm so passionate about this topic and I cannot wait for it to continue to I think we're starting to see it rippling to a certain extent but to really become a part of the conversation of the blueprint by which we put all of the Amazing health interventions.

‍

Where do we put them? the cold blend, where do we put the sauna, where do we put the photobiomodulator, where do we put all these things? And suddenly a blueprint emerges when we are following these rhythms. You know, when I say how you've touched on this field about a sleep recovery is like your sleep is a skill.

‍

And that's because you offer training to people mostly, you know, how do they do these things? It's a, it's a kind of a, not a typical western medicine approach, which is a treatment. Sure, yeah. But there are applications and treatments that you can use that can augment it and move these things, and that's kind of what we're talking about is, is we offer both.

‍

you know, recipes or training, which people need, but also a treatment that sort of makes it like passive. You just put the light on at the right time at the right place and away you go, right? Yeah, and I'm hoping you can further, because I know we got into a little bit in that old episode, it was so long ago, and I'm sure if anyone's new to this, why would we connect red light therapy and sleep?

‍

What's the practical application? Or sometimes we hear people say, yeah, yeah. I tried it a little. I don't know. I didn't notice any difference in my sleep, so I didn't use it. Like, how do we kind of shake that message a bit more? But let's take it, let's, let's look at it a different way. Let's look at it a different way because we're going to, hopefully we're going to touch on that.

‍

But really,  you know,  why, what's the point? Uh,  if you have, what do you do? Why does good sleep  help us? Let's put it a different way.  Let's think of it this way. You know, people say, you know, it's hard to change people. But I say, if you change your sleep, you will change who you are. Totally. And, and, and people don't get that.

‍

Uh, if they're sleep deprived and let's put it this way, you know, the stats better than me,  you know, when we're driving around town or in the highways, like we're doing here.  You don't really assume that the 10, 15, or 20 people that are passing by you every couple of minutes that  we should be afraid  of them.

‍

Yeah. Because they are  not functioning mentally too well because they're sleep deprived. Yeah. But in reality,  It's true, right? 80 percent of the U. S. population is not getting enough sleep. Something like that, right? Large swath, certainly, yeah. So, you know, when you think about  the sleep and the, and that capability of a professional race car driver and his reaction time, right?

‍

Versus Bob  the plumber, right, who hasn't slept more than, you know, or these things. We realize that sleep is having an impact on our lives on every which way. And so,  if you get better sleep,  why does it make you a different person? Why do you get better?  You know, you see people improving in their lives, their emotions, their, their, their relationships, their decision making, their, their insulin, their ability to not, you know, make snap decisions when they eat.

You know, do you have an idea why? What's your theory on why people get better if they get better sleep? Oh, I mean, how much time do we have? So one, I've been giving talks all over talking about how every area of life, I haven't had someone kind of yet to be able to share an area of life that isn't impacted, that's connected to us when we aren't sleeping sufficiently.

And then particularly, of course, from cognition and mental health. And so how we show up in the world around us. But certainly, I know one of the areas that you'll be touching on, too, is the glymphatic component and the ability to have that brain working the way we want that brain to be working, which is pretty crucial.

And that's that's the thank you for the nice, soft pitch there. Oh, totally. But that's really the focus of our work. And again, here, we're going to get into why the light therapy or photobiomodulation can help us. I like to get away from the red light, because it's It's kind of read in infrared. Yes, please.

Yeah. Yeah.  And  it's not really panel.  It's kind of game kind of got to touch the skin. So that's let's keep that caveat for optimum changes It's still circadian medicine because if you have a panel on there, you know, you're meditating in front of it That it's it's really not getting into you that much but at least you're not turning on the blue led lights around you So yeah, it's good that way and I think I made that point before but you know, what is the benefit of all this?

Good sleep, extra sleep. Is it because we dream more, Molly? I know we talked about that. No, it's not because we dream more. It's because we're hopefully activating the body's, the brain's immune system and the brain's healing system, which is the lymphatic system, you know, and it's only been around for like 10, you know, 10 or 15 years, the same thing.

Well, you know, Yeah, since 2011. And my, my, my colleague is going to be presenting in, uh, in Lund, Sweden at the glymphatic symposium next month. So, I mean, we're really deep into this. And that is actually when the immune system gets going. That's when the bot, the brain is really healing itself. It's like,  It's like, uh,  the cleaning ladies can go into the office.

So like if you work in the stock market, right? And all those ticker tapes, everything's in all this noise and everything like that. But at nighttime, when everything's quiet, then the people can go in, but there's not so much brain activity and do that cleanup. And that is when you doing it is in your sleep.

My premise is. Your brain health improves because your deep sleep or your sleep circadian or these types of things that are used Can wash these toxins out and reduce the neural inflammation that we have which makes us be really who we truly are  Yeah, no, we're not supposed to be us with neural inflammation and toxic load and all this stuff.

That's really not us And if you really want to be yourself, you need to dedicate your time for sleeping and the, you know, the therapies and the, and the treatments and the training to accomplish these things, to be the best you can be. Like you say, show up. Ah, I could not agree more. Many people that have tuned into this podcast have heard me talk about my excitement for some of the work that Dr.

Chris Palmer is doing to shed light on this kind of potentially new way of looking at the field of psychiatry and looking at metabolic psychiatry, mitochondrial psychiatry. And it just makes me think of that from what you're sharing, right? I did make up the title. The subtitle is The Neurometabolic Solution.

So it's a neurometabolic, excuse me, the neurometabolic  solution.  So I don't want to be too bold, but really that's what it's all about. Yeah. Is you have to charge the batteries and there's, you know, different ways that we can do this.  You know, like our big push is sure putting the light on you during the day and everything like that, that can help the system and circulation and everything like that.

But our protocols are really made to do at home twice a day, you know, in the dark, laying down just before bed, And then it kind of increases that blood flow to the brain and you know, we've got research going on all over the  world right now that's demonstrated these changes in blood flow and fluid. We call it neuro fluid movement because there's a lot of stuff that's inside the head there.

that the light has reactions to.  It has a calming effect, it has a strong parasympathetic effect, where you need it, and the infrared light has, you know, these different wavelengths go in and they affect different cells, the water and everything, so there's, stuff can flow a little bit better. Vasodilates, the blood and the fluids kind of flow a little bit easier, so you can get it into the brain.

The areas that it needs to go. And then this kind of has a little bit more power to wash this stuff out and flush it out. And that's when you need to have detox and then, you know, sweat and gut and everything like that. So it's all one system. And I, and you know what, you know, Perry Nicholson stopped chasing pain.

He's a big guy on this lymphatic drain.  Yeah. And I've been, you know, was able to groove with him on his podcast and a little bit. And, you know, I said to him, you know, Harry is the lymphatic.  system of the body.  Why is it there? Is it there to serve the body or is it there to serve the brain? And just like that, he said, it's there to serve the brain.

The brain is a highly metabolic area in this very limited space, right? So it can't hold the toxins in there. Or guess what happens? You get Parkinson's, you get brain fog, you get all this stuff. So it has to wash that stuff out through the lymphatic system and through the organs and, and through this whole  system to detox the body.

So you're, you're, you're kind of right on that in, in everything that you're talking about and the people that you have on the screen. Let's talk to get these things going because we know that it's effective for brain fog, photobiomodulation, the transcranial, putting the light on there. We have devices that go around the neck that kind of boom, push the fluid up into the head.

So you're getting a nice, uh, systems approach. Everything that the light touches has an effect, the skin, the tissues that are underneath it. And  it's not just,  The person that says, well, I know it's my bedtime, but I don't feel sleepy.  Yeah, you know what I mean? You're like, you know  your whole  all your microbiome Your muscles your organs everything is on a circadian rhythm and if you want to play with that  You know,  think of the 90 trillion cells in your body sitting there waiting for you  because you're supposed to do your job, right?

Right. You're not doing your job, which is  beating your circadian cycle. Photobiomodulation is a great way to,  you know, get in that rhythm and get everything going. Oh, good. Yeah, 100%. Like one thing for many people that might be tuning in, there might be varied reasons why they're listening. Maybe they're struggling with their sleep.

They want, you know, kind of support immediately. And this could be one of those things that they could potentially delve into. And then there's the other people that they're tracking, they're sleeping, but they're just looking to up level their stats. And I know you're someone who's doing that. that has been well versed in your stats and you've got some great stats of your own.

And would you say that, do you attribute the photobiomodulation  to some of the success with your stats and the prioritization of glymphatic drainage? What do you think there? Well, you know, we, my history is, kind of similar to yours in a way in that I suffered multiple  traumatic brain injuries throughout my life.

Yeah. And I really was slipping, you know, emotionally, cognitively, things were going down for me. I didn't realize that. You know, I didn't abuse myself really because I, I had to take care of people, you know, being a doctor of chiropractic is like, and I was a neurologist, you know, chiropractic neurologist.

It's like a brain surgeon. You can't just go in and be hung over and you know, you have to be kind of strict, but I didn't understand.  that my traumatic brain injury, my concussions over time, we're building up, which they show  that that messes up your sleep cycle, right? You can't clear out that neuroinflammation and you're on high alert.

Your sympathetic nervous system is going on. I didn't know all this stuff, but two, two, you know, five and a half years ago, I got a whoop, right?  And I started to pay attention. And I said, even after the first kind of, even if I started looking at this, I said, uh,  I'm gonna be indestructible if I get this stuff down right.

Yeah,  totally. And then the whoop just had a, uh, Christian Christiano, Ronaldo and Christian Ronaldo on, right? Sure. And they were giving out his stats and I said to myself, I, I can ask the Google the whoop, but ai, what's my stats? Right? Yeah. So, uh, I had, so five and a half years my. And this is 500 through five covids and you know all this bad stuff My lifetime average recovery score for five and a half years is about 62  That's pretty good pretty good And and my lifetime Average sleep performance is 92.

4 That's in the top 10 percent of all whoop Members . Yeah. And 20% better than, uh, any, mostly the average in my age group. Right. The average in my age group of 60 to 65 is like 77%. Yeah. And Christiana, Ronaldo was only 81%. Right.  ? My lifetime, my lifetime, uh, strain score is 12.2. And you know, my heart rate variability is 32% higher than the average man using whoop average man.

Not yeah. My HRV is 54, right, at 63, and the average for men my age is 41. So it's 40 percent of, you know, I'm just, I knew, I practice what I preach. How about this one? Because this is a lot to do with longevity.  I think that my average resting heart rate, if it's not just average heart rate, is 56. Well, in the morning, it's around 49.

But you know, that's, you know, That's lower than 80 percent of men my age.  Is that wild?  20, 20, 21 percent higher and lower than, than everybody in my, in my age group. So, you know, I practice what I preach and when I do preach, you know,  people listen to me and we found that using these metrics with our clients, we have a, how to say an 86%.

Increase in our deep sleep percentage.  Holy. Yeah.  These numbers too, Molly And it, and really what we're saying is what we, we had the biodata tracking  and we had the photobiomodulation and we, and that's really where the stats that we were using  is watching these people. Improve and using this to say, Hey, well, let's do it like this.

Let's do it like this.  And the deep sleep is most important because that's where the immune system of the brain is working, not just the muscles. It's, it's important for cognitive recovery, for cleaning this stuff out, right? And also for forming those memories.  We saw also the heart rate variability in our people go up at least a hundred percent.

So from 30 to 62 or maybe 13 to 26, but a hundred percent is, is is pretty normal. So we know that, that the autonomic nervous system. Controls the heart and the heart controls basal dilation, right? The heart, it's part of that basal dilation. So all of these things of the photobiomodulation increasing blood flow to the part that you put it on, right?

is related to HRV. And you're going to see a lot more research on that now. So  REM sleep went down about 44 percent in these people. And that's kind of important because too much stimulation gives you too much REM sleep and the restlessness or light sleep went down 16%. So when you look at the sleep architecture, it all moved in the right direction.

We stole the time of, you know, total sleep goes up,  restlessness or awake time or that light sleep, which is, you know, kind of useful, but we don't need that much of it. And the REM sleep goes down to near normal limits, and the deep sleep kind of goes up. And that's really where the money is right there.

It's the deep sleep is where you can really make changes in brain health, and that comes out in your humanity and your emotions, right? And of course, and stuff like that, right? Yeah, 100%. If you've tuned into the show or followed any of our content here at Sleep as a Skill, you may have heard that everyone that we work with wears the Oura Ring.

And as a result, we have amassed a very large database of Oura Ring users and get to see what really moves the needle for people when it comes to their sleep measurably. Now, because we have so much data around sleep optimization, many ask what they can do to improve their sleep quality. And for years, my answer has been that one of the few things I've seen makes such an overnight difference is the use of a quality cooling mattress topper.

Not just any ordinary topper that claims to be cooling with like gels or what have you, but an actual cooling topper that uses water and can be dynamically adjusted to suit your unique needs and preferences. Now, this is why I am so excited to announce that 8 Sleep is now an official sponsor of the podcast.

I have tested various cooling mattress toppers and fan systems over the years, and none of them have come close to the innovative and customizable, seamless nature of the Eight Sleep system. Not only does it have an autopilot feature to intelligently adjust the temperature of the topper to work in alignment with your body's needs, but it also has additional features that truly set it apart.

So with eight sleep, you can enjoy advanced sleep tracking, allowing you to monitor key metrics like heart rate, heart rate variability, and sleep stages, all integrated seamlessly into the app. It also has a dual zone temperature control, which means that you and your partner can each set your own ideal sleep temperature.

Plus the gentle rise wake up technology uses temperature and vibration to wake you up gently and naturally avoiding the jarring sound of an alarm. But it doesn't stop there. There's more, more, more. So the system even includes a smart alarm feature that wakes you up during your lightest seconds. sleep phase.

I know a lot of people have asked me about this and this is included in here within a customizable time window, ensuring you wake up feeling refreshed and ready to start your day. And for those of you who struggle with snoring, eight sleep has an anti snore feature that adjusts your sleep environment in real time to help reduce snoring and improve overall sleep quality.

So this is truly a game changer for anyone serious about optimizing their sleep. So if you're ready to take your sleep to the next level, Head on over to eight sleep and use the code sleep as a skill. All one word at checkout for a discount.  Today, I want to talk to you about something that often flies under the radar, but is absolutely crucial for great sleep minerals.

Now you've heard me talk about circadian rhythms, light exposure, temperature control, and more, but let's dive into the foundational elements that fuel our body's ability to sleep deeply and restoratively specifically minerals. Our modern lifestyle with its processed foods and environmental stressors can leave us depleted of essential minerals.

This depletion can mess with our sleep quality, leading to issues like restless legs, poor sleep initiation, and waking up in the middle of the night. Enter Beam Minerals. Beam Minerals are designed to replenish your body's essential mineral levels, providing the building blocks your body needs for optimal health.

And this includes better sleep. What I love about Beam is that they use 100 percent bioavailable liquid minerals, which means your body can actually absorb and utilize them instantly without any fillers or additives. Magnesium for example, is known as nature's relaxant, helping to calm the nervous system, support muscle relaxation, and some argue by extension can promote deep, restful sleep.

Beam's magnesium is sourced in a way that ensures maximum absorption and effectiveness, making it a key part of my sleep routine. But Beam doesn't stop there. They've created a comprehensive blend that includes other vital minerals like potassium, calcium, and trace minerals that work synergistically to support your overall health and of course your sleep.

The result, you wake up feeling more refreshed, more balanced and ready to take on the day. So if you've been struggling with sleep and feel like you've tried everything, it might be time to look at what's happening on a cellular level. Beam Minerals can help fill in those gaps and give your body the support it needs for truly restorative sleep.

So head on over to Beam Minerals spelled B E A M. today and use the code sleep as a skill, all one word at checkout to get a special discount on your order, your body and your sleep will thank you.  So for anyone listening, so often the million dollar question for people is, okay, I want to improve my deep sleep.

What do I do? And I'm naturally, I know it's a multifaceted answer and there's a lot going on, but curious if you would, for someone saying exactly that, what you might point them in the direction of. Well, you know, it's a very, you're right there, uh, Molly, because almost everything  you do will affect your deep sleep.

Exactly. I know. That's like the trick. But the bad news is, the bad news is don't do the bad things  because  you can't take a pill. There's nothing really to take a pill really to improve your deep sleep, but let's look at it a different way.  When we do things. That improves our glymphatic  output. How about that?

Now we put that a different way. And then can we do things that will inhibit or hurt our glymphatic output? And so now we have a whole lifestyle question. I don't know if you saw this the other day, but. You know, uh, Bredesen did a great, Dale Bredesen has a great chapter in his book, you know, uh, The End of Alzheimer's, where there's a chapter that says how to give yourself Alzheimer's.

Right. Yeah. And, and recently they say here, ultra processed processed foods as an independent risk factor for poor brain health. Okay, so  what does it say here? It says, what are ultra processed foods? Soft drinks, chips, chocolate, candy, ice cream, sweetened breakfast cereal, packaged soups, chicken nuggets, hot dogs, Fries, chips, fries, soft drink,  right?

So like if you, if you create an ultra inflammatory environments,  you're going to overload the old, uh, you know,  cleaning lady in there, depending on her speed and stuff. So  let's just say that. You have to make the proper choices and you have to kind of, uh, you know,  you don't, all these things are about training and making the proper choices so that you can get to the, to the gold at the end.

There's no, there's no treatment that's going to get you to the end like that. You know what I mean? It's like, you have to not do a lot of things. I will give you a tip that I, there are some things. That, like, I saw this the other day,  the passion flower, passion root flower,  I think that's what it is, and they, they, um, it's one of the first botanicals made into a pharmacy.

Um, pharmacological component and it's called digoxin,  digoxin. Digoxin has been shown to increase glymphatic output. Now, what basically digoxin does is like nitric, nitroglycerin, nitric oxide, that's the same thing. It enhances vasodilation, but because it makes the heart pump a little bit harder.  Right? So we're doing experiments in the university, Auckland University in New Zealand on spontaneous hypertensive rats.

So a rat that, or a human or whatever, the vessels get hard and they don't really basal dilate too much. And we're going to see if we put the light on these guys, Will they, you know, move? Will they have some more pliability in there? Because that's sort of how it works. If you don't push,  you don't drain.

You know, don't push it out. Think of it like this. The enhancing the glymphatic system and then that's helping your deep sleep and your deep sleep percentages. Kind of like, um,  working a dry sponge,  right? You have to kind of get it wet and soak it up and then  it can soak and suck and that because that's sort of the process.

you know, how that brain, that brain works. And, you know, we're doing some, also some research on acute traumatic brain injury. So not this people who are like you, I like maybe 15 years later and they go, geez, you know, I hit my head skin and I think I saw stars and I lost my breath. And I think I had a concussion and that's why, you know, I can't really get, make it to work on time.

And I get lost sitting at my desk. I'm, you know, into this thing. Oh, we don't put it together, but these are people who ride their motorcycle on the side of a car or bus. Yeah. And they're in the hospital with tracheal things and their skull is removed and everything like that. And we're showing it with our research.

We have a research paper right now. We have  eight  researchers.  Each one of them is a master in their field. They have completed the narrative or systemic review of all these topics of how,  uh,  photobiomodulation  augment the body's glymphatic system to reduce  This damage and save these people's lives really  in the hospital bed By helping the the fluids and reducing that inflammation and that's kind of important This survivability goes up if you put the light on these people in the icu.

So  like That's kind of the, that's kind of in a nutshell, it's kind of where our mission is, is to educate people and if we can have those, those devices in the hospital ready for these people so they don't, they can, not only will they survive more because it increases your survivability, but there's, will save more brain cells.

So they won't be so disabled once they do make it out.  Quick tangent, curious your thoughts. I think we both know of Dr. Jack Cruz and he has been sharing on, um, his interest in transcranial magnetic stimulation for TBI.  And just curious, since you are very knowledgeable on all things, these topics, if you endorse that or have questions on that topic?

Well, you know, the Hippocratic Oath says. First, do no harm.  And what we can say without a doubt  is that putting light on your head doesn't make you worse.  Putting light on your head,  there's no negative side effects. I mean, uh, thousands of, I mean, my thousands of people in all the clinical trials and everything like that.

Nobody gets bad.  Unfortunately,  when we're dealing with a highly monetized  system of these drive dock in the box drive through put the magnetic stimulation on your brain. They really don't know, from my perspective, and I'm, you know, this isn't my, I'm not an expert, but they really don't know what's going on in there.

And the people that I see, they come out with scrambled eggs for brains, and they are in a mess. And they don't know what happened to them, they don't know what's going on, and they don't know how to get better. So, remember,  we talk about  toxins in the brain.  So, one of the things that Makes a lot of toxins in the brain is just the metabolic activity of being a human.

Yeah. Consuming all this information. So it's called like excitotoxicity.  And so  photobiomodulation is not  stimulatory. That's the first thing you've got to realize. It doesn't stimulate. That's why there's no side effects. It's acceleratory.  So you're only going to go as fast as you're, as you can drive that car.

You're not, it's not going to go beyond you. And that's kind of what we talk about in neuro, neuro metabolic solution. You know,  a person with brain fog, a person with TBI, a person with a cognitive impairment,  they don't need stimulation.  The brain can go as fast as it wants to. It just is slowing you down because you're toxic, right?

You can't stimulate.  You know, a a neurotoxic and neuro inflamed brain, you can't stimulate it, it won't go right.  You have to reduce that inflammation. So going in there and stimulating the, it's a, it's a recipe for disaster. And I think that's what the, the long term studies are gonna show. Yeah. They, the people don't get better.

You, you're, you can't stimulate a, a toxic brain that's just. So well said. Okay, got it. Thank you for that. And before we shift over, because I think it will be really interesting to hear the latest on how you're managing your own sleep and what we can learn from that. But before we shift gears to that, is there anything, I know this is a quick conversation, but is there anything that we really missed that you would like to address in this big topic?

I have to say that being a friend of the show, right, you know, we're not really, uh, but, but I, I really. endorse everything you do. I have this,  a free app that I want to share with you guys, all the listeners and anybody that you have there, that they can go and to our, to the Shopify, it's in the show notes, and they can do free tests, what we call the Brain Sherpa.

This is the 1. 0 Brain Sherpa, guiding you to better brain health and cognition. It's going to kind of tell you how things are doing. Now, obviously.  There's a lot of stuff out there. This is going to be pretty simple. It's less than that. Like it's like a two, two minute test and it's a reaction time test.

And what is reaction time good for?  Reaction time good is good for fatigue, recognizing that you're fatigued, right? It's, it's sustained attention. And also, uh, it's sleep loss and circadian misalignment.  If you have a sleep debt,  you're right. You're not going to be able to have problem solving skills or, you know, your alertness is going to go down.

You're going to make bad decisions. So really it's a way in the morning to wake up, take this test. And see, how alert am I? How is my brain working today? And you can do, you know, we're going to use it with our, with the photobiomodulation. We're going to use it maybe before sleep and after sleep, just to give you an idea.

How did I spend my alertness, my energy, my focus today? And how much do I have when I'm ready to take on my day? Look at, I'm doing better. Look, I got to, I did my routine and here's the result. I think that's positive. Yes, so important. I mean, and as you're speaking to it's such a problem because so many people don't even realize they're fatigued or they don't realize that the they've dropped the bar on what it is to navigate the world around us.

So to be able to distinguish that is important. So love that. I think it's great because, you know, really, What did they say?  Tick tock and all these things. What they're after is our attention. Yeah. They're after our attention. And  can you, can you focus? Can you stay on task? That's brain power. Yeah. That's brain power.

And this is what we're about. We, we sleep to improve our brain, to be better. better people. That's basically.  Couldn't agree more. I love it. So good. And I know people are going to be so curious of how you're managing your own sleep and kind of the structure of your day to be garnering these great whoop results.

So the first question we ask everyone is what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now? Well, you know, we talked about the first time and I think I still got a couple of baffs. I mean, my nightly sleep routine starts when I open my eyes in the morning. And that's kind of what we talked about.

We need to have a certain amount of activity. We need to have a certain amount of relaxation. So we active, we need to cool down and everything like that. And, uh, but you know, having the sleep metrics, having my sacred time, you know, I don't talk once I go to bed.  You know, if my wife wakes up in the middle of the night and says something,  I don't talk because those things wake me up.

I don't drink because that stuff wakes me up. And so, yeah, it, you know, me, I have my stuff, but I've been, I think that one of the big things is, of course I do my transcranial photobiomodulation. I have a pad on my chest that increases the circulation in my lymphatics here. I have a pad that we designed to go around the neck.

Pushes the blood up there. I have an intranasal device that I use because that's a huge, you know, uh, blood viscosity and it drains. That's where the glymphatics drains. They're there in the base of your head. And then I have a wrap that goes around my head. And because I'm thin on top, I use a little pad on top of my head too.

So it's a, a wrap technology. And I lay there and I, while I'm doing my 20 minutes.  a photobot, transphotobot modulation. I do a breathing app, which I'm pretty psyched about, you know, paced breathing is very good there. See, paced breathing,  slow breathing, it's good for a lot of things, but what it's doing is actually moving the CSF.

And it's actually, slower you breathe, the more CO2 you have, and that creates more waves of dilation. So I'm whamming away, doing my biofeedback, my HRV biofeedback. I have a very good for that called, uh, the NeuroPeak Pro. It really uses HRV and it really paces it, it does it the right way. So you can get the free paced breathing things, just make sure that they vibrate so you don't have to look at the screen.

Yeah.  But this one actually reads the respiration. This is, this is what you're actually breathing. How much in, how much out, and out. I think that's helped a lot. Yeah. So, so that's kind of it, 20 minutes. And there's no way you could stay awake after that. Go to sleep or wake up. I do some, you know, the big six, some emphatic movements when I wake up in the morning, make sure I'm hydrated.

One more time to push that fluid out because that's when your intracranial pressure is your highest. It's first thing in the morning.  So you need to push that stuff out first thing in the morning and people don't, don't, I don't think they get this, you know, I don't think they understand that that's really a benefit of your photobiomodulation, your circadian medicine, and also your, your, the movements and the things that you do with the hydration.

It's, it's just, it's a great science of this, how the body and the CSF and all this stuff works, how the fluid movements and all these ancient traditions, really what we're finding is that yoga, breathing and everything like that. Why does that help us? It's because these are helping to move the fluid downward dog, stand on your head, up, down, up, down.

What's that doing? It's  totally pulling the tube. So I think that. That's training, right? That's training.  So important.  Respiration is your meditation. Movement is your yoga if you want, you know, breathing. So it's, it is, it is training to be an optimal, a better human. Couldn't agree more. So good. And the second question is, goes right back to what you initially shared that your, you know, great sleep begins in the morning.

Second question to address that is what does your morning sleep routine look like? Yes, you know,  up, up, and as I said, photobiomodulation, and then some lymphatic little activities. Yep. You're doing the same thing. Uh, and then, you know, make sure you're hydrated, and I think you, there's nothing that stops you, you know?

Right. My people, we don't get fatigued, so we're ready, we're ready for the morning. We're not slow. We're slow to get up because we have to do our, our procedures, you know, and stuff. We'll get more of that after that, soon. Right. And that kind of cutting of certain things that are more hitting. So it's not like going to some of these elements, the alcohol, the issues that can really show up in our sleep that you're not, you're not tapping into those.

That's fantastic. Love it. Okay. So what might we see on your nightstand or in your environment at night? I have my pads right there. Yeah. Sometimes I'll have my, my little drink so I can finish off my. My like, I like beetroot powder and like creatine and, uh, uh, magnesium. This is in my tea and some like, uh, my kombucha, you know, and, um, um, beetroot powder, and I think that's it.

And, uh, So that'll be there. I'll finish that one. I'll take, I'll take Valerian root. I like Valerian root to ignite Scaba. So, you know, I get, I'll get a handful and then I hit my bed. Probably, I try to start my process at eight,  eight thirty to nine, depending on what's happening.  So I might have, I have digoxin.

I have a little digoxin once in a while.  Put a couple of drops on my tongue, just to totally, yeah, just leave it all out. Okay. Pretty clean. Pretty clean. Yeah. Great. Okay. So then the last question so far to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game or said another way, maybe biggest aha moment in managing your sleep?

I fumbled this question the last time and I think I'm gonna fumble it this time too.  Well, it keeps evolving, you know, we're never done. So the,  I think that the, the,  the aha moment, and I think my wife shared this suit with me is that you don't know,  like I used to say, when is a sensory thing, sort of personal thing?

You like someone who's going death.  They don't know they're going deaf, but everybody else does. Yeah, right. It's the same thing when you're sleep deprived. I'm not angry. I'm not short tempered. You know, I'm not that guy. I'm not gruff. I'm not like this and I'm not like that. And that kind of was my, my, my aha moment that, that, that personality that I carried around with me.

It's, it's like,  really not me.  It really wasn't me. Yeah. It was my bad. Sleep hygiene and and all those other things like that. So yeah, people aren't going to recognize that in themselves. But if someone if one of someone listens to this,  it's all  different. They're longing for change. Yeah. Realize you can't.

Change without energy and the energy is what you build when you're taking your good habits and doing the good trainings that Molly's, you know, explaining and building your own energy reserves. That's really what your job is to do to be there. You know, if you're the mother, if you're the lover, you're the surgeon, you're the bus driver, you're the cook.

That's really your job.  is to show up and your best self. Great. I love it. That is so, so important. And I think it's just such an untapped resource for so many people because we see it's such an epidemic with people struggling with their sleep and not even knowing what's available. I mean, you're certainly, I'm clear in a similar camp to my experience of now.

It's like, there's no going back to how that, what, right. Can you imagine? No way. And so it's like this addiction to feeling good. There's I have zero interest in how I used to feel. But I think so many people just think that that's life. Like, that's how you feel. You wake up, you're dragging, you just, you know, hit the coffee, whatever.

You know, doesn't have to be like that. Amen. Amen. Yeah, I think that's a great, a great statement. And it means, as I said, Molly, you have that, that stuff. There's, there's, uh, there's resources. It's very simple to start. Yeah. Sometimes, what's the pain point? You know, you find peace. And the one message that I tell all my people is Do something and do it now.

Yeah, so good.  We'll need that. Yeah, do it now. That's my message. Oh, I love it. Well, one, thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom and all the things that you're discovering along the way because I know, you know, we had the opportunity to few years back and we only scratched the surface and same thing again here.

We're only just getting into the beginnings of it. So highly recommend for people to check out your great book. I had the opportunity to read that. Thank you for sending that over to me. You could tell it was very clear that you spilled so much time, energy, effort into making that happen and really thoughtful.

So really important to check that out. And I know you live your distinctions and your commitments around all this. So, really appreciate you taking the time. And then, did we outline all the places for people to go to find all of these? Um, we'll have them in the show notes. Yeah, we'll have them in the show notes.

We're going to make it available in the show notes and on our little Shopify. We use that for our main, you know, giveaway and stuff like that. Perfect. Ah, well, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. And then we'll have to kind of keep this going. Madeline. Thanks, everybody. See you soon.

You've been listening to the sleep as a skill podcast, the top podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out the sleep obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet. Fun facts. I've never missed a Monday for over five years and counting.

And it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep. Head on over to sleep as a skill. com forward slash  newsletter to sign up.