197: Christa Biegler - Dietitian Nutritionist & Author: Gut-Sleep Reset: How to Heal Your Microbiome for Deep, Restorative Sleep

Welcome to the sleep as a skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of sleep as a skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change as an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thanks about sleep.

Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned life. Style is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

Welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. If you've ever struggled with sleep and wondered whether stress inflammation or gut health might be part of the puzzle, this episode is for you today. I'm joined by Krista Biegler, an award winning dietitian, nutritionist, host of the less. stress life podcast and author of the eczema relief diet and cookbook.

She spent years helping people tackle food sensitivities, fatigue, and inflammation without strict diets or unnecessary overwhelm. We're diving into how inflammation stress and gut health can directly impact sleep. Why gut imbalances might be messing with your melatonin, how adrenal fatigue affects your energy.

Simple shifts that can help improve your sleep. If you're someone who struggles with falling asleep, waking up in the middle of the night, or just feeling drained, despite doing everything quote, right, you're not alone. There's a lot we can do to support better sleep. And Krista is here to share what really works.

So we're going to get right into the podcast, but first a few words from our sponsors and as always. Please check them out, go to their websites, et cetera. Because one, we only partner with people that we truly believe in. And two, these sponsors really keep this podcast alive. So that would mean a ton.  If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep.

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I'd love to hear your experience.  And welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. This is an honor and a pleasure to have our guests here. I actually just had the opportunity to show up and talk sleep on her podcast. And now she's coming over here. I'm going to share her wisdom. So thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Always my pleasure. And, uh, talk about one of my favorite topics and honestly, the one that affects us. All  in every single way.

Right. The great equalizer sleep a hundred percent. Okay. So maybe we can start kind of at the beginning. So one, how did you find yourself in the role of having a business that is called the less stressed life?

I'm getting that right, right? The less stressed life. I mean, people that are showing up to listen and learn about sleep, I think are going to love that title. So how did you find yourself in this role? And how could that connect with sleep?

It's funny. I also think as devil's advocate that high achievers view the word stress as kind of a weak word.

And so I actually think that sometimes it cannot always be perceived like it's like, yeah, I want that, but they don't even recognize their own stress. But where that name came from was, I think it was 2017, I was going live a lot on social media, and I was talking about inflammation at that moment, I was like, this is my topic, and what I was experiencing was only people who knew what I was talking about were showing up, so I was looking for a synonym for inflammation, so I picked the word stress, it actually is a perfect synonym for inflammation, um, the results did not change, turns out when you like speak at a certain level, sometimes you just attract people who just know it.

You know, that under have that understanding that's that's who's who is attracted to podcast to science topics is those who already care about that. So that is actually where that topic comes from. And inflammation is simply an umbrella for everything. So if I'm humiliation is up, of course, sleep can be compromised.

I see it happen all of the time. But I don't think of inflammation as it's an easy way to describe things. But I don't really think about it as root cause. I think about it as many root causes underneath inflammation. Overall.

Yes. Well, I love that kind of nuanced look at even the topic of stress and makes me think of Kelly McGonigal, who had really looked at how we can become friends with our stress and actually lean into stress and that it can be so supportive for us in different capacities.

So I just love that enriching and that's actually really. pertinent to some of the people that we work with, where they're often tracking. And within the last couple of years, we've seen additions for daytime stress monitors on many of the trackers. So we often see people freaking out about their stress scores and right.

Usually that

usually is like, I have a bit of a, a mantra in practice where if this particular thing creates more stress, then usually it's not worth it because then it's just kind of circumventing any benefit. Overall, so yeah, looking at that. I understand. I think unrealized stress is kind of our biggest challenge yet.

It's one of the areas I am most passionate about because it's me. It's it's it's most high achievers. It's like you aren't really familiar with your baseline stress. And so just seeing it in different ways, always exploring different tools to kind of tune into it. It's cool that the trackers do that  because it brings some realization, but yes.

That whole, it's funny, it's like that whole realization. Yeah, it's a real interesting thing. It's like, well, this is now creating more stress. It is, it's something I've worked through a ton over the years with clients because you can't really say to somebody like, well, your problem is stress. I mean, I, I remember this woman who had just got a headache.

After certain experiences in her life and like poor sleep and it was couldn't be and then and then it would go away with magnesium is like, well, this could not be more obvious like this really just stress and so but it was stressful for me to say it that way. So I had to learn.  a different way to talk about that.

And so I actually use a whole coaching process now that kind of illuminates stress in a different way. It's really all your thoughts and feelings, to be honest, um, about the particular day, but a different day. I

love that. Okay. Well, kind of. Put a pin in that for now. And as we look at some of the unique ways that you're approaching sleep, when people are coming your way, how do you potentially think about sleep differently than maybe some people might?

So when people are coming your way, maybe they've worked with other people or struggling and. They finally get to you. How are you responding to that? Yeah, struggle

for sure. So people come in the door and they're usually having some kind of inflammatory issue. Um, big areas would be food sensitivities, skin issues.

So sometimes they're waking up, um, itching actually. And overall, like their energy is not as awesome as they want it to be. Um, Maybe someone's told them that they're getting older, maybe that they're a new parent. I just don't really love those cop out answers. And so I kind of, I'm flipping that. And so what I'll see is, of course, different sleep patterns.

So some sleep patterns that are very obvious in my practice, and I'll tell you exactly where I start for them, um, would be trouble falling asleep, right? So not falling asleep. Or am I waking up, um, 12 to 3 a. m.? So that sends me in some particular directions. Am I waking up four to six a. m. unplanned? I don't want to wake up at that time, right?

Yeah. Um, so if I'm not falling asleep, am I wired and tired? What's going on there? And so a lot of people come in with some, it's, I mean, you know the stats better than I do, because this is your area. Sleep issues are like ridiculous. Yes. It's honestly.  Crazy. Yeah. We reached an all

time high in 2023 for Google search trends, which really gives us a pulse of how people are, what's going on in their minds.

So in 2023 was an all time high of people searching for sleep help, sleep support, you know, different inquiries around looking for this thing that we're doing a third of our lives. So you're right. Right. Big deal.

It sucks. It sucks. Um, so I'll just acknowledge that. Not fun at all. I like to tell people.

That I, I get to,  I get to counsel very intelligent people who are sometimes sabotaging their sleep in a different way, right? And so I usually get to that second, you know, when I'm going through everything, there's usually a lot of other symptoms. Um, there's lots of ways to start with things. I always start people with like,  lifestyle things.

So for example, all the things that contribute to energy for I'm sure you talk a lot about circadian rhythm here and like sunlight hitting the super charismatic nucleus right away. I just give that to them as like a first line thing before we even really you barely walked in the door and it's like, I think you should go do this thing.

Right. So we do that automatically. We support minerals automatically. And then after we get like some foundations built, I'm going to go after gut health. And I will say that, I mean, that is, that makes sense for me, right? If I have people with food sensitivities, usually gut stuff is at the bottom of it.

And I do think that gut stuff is a. Catalyst for a lot of energy issues. So for example, if you've got an overgrowth of bacterial fungus, et cetera, parasites, whatever in your gut, and they may not show up on testing, right? Um, there's lots of ways you can kind of figure that out. But if you've got that stuff going on, those organisms are going to steal your nutrients and then those nutrients are going to be able to make energy for you.

They're also going to disrupt the microbiota and in the gut microbiome, as you I'm sure has been discussed here, um, 70 percent of serotonin is made and serotonin is a precursor to melatonin. So if that is disrupted, that will massively impact sleep. Now, when we start to move the needle there, it immediately shifts sleep for a very large number of our clients.

Um, and I have a little pearl for you here. Sometimes it takes.  Sometimes it's pretty immediate. I would say gut. The reason we start with gut stuff aside from all the foundational stuff I would have you lay out beforehand is just that the results are pretty quick and, um, honestly, easy to assume that they're going to be there within about three ish weeks.

But let's say, you know, we don't want to wait three weeks or. It's taking a little longer. There's some other detail here. Sometimes we've been able, I've been able to simulate this better microbiota situation, thereby apparently improving serotonin and therefore maybe melatonin by doing very high dose.

spore based probiotics. I'm saying like a very decent sized dose of bacillus subtilis. There's a product called HU58. I'll like pair that on top of other spores and doing like about three capsules. So normally it would be like one capsule, but doing like three capsules, kind of an hour before bed has, I've seen in multiple people, sometimes this little catalyst that can shift things.

Another area where you can go wrong with this, and I'm, I don't want to get so broad here because sometimes, you know, gut health has been popular to be talked about for. about 20 years now. And so we all have stereotypes on what we think that means. So I'm coming in with my stereotypes of how I think about it.

And I want to make sure I'm qualifying a little bit along the way, because  sometimes I'm like, we're not even on the same planet when we're talking about this topic, right? And so another thing that can happen Just a sneaky little nuancy thing that can happen with sleep issues is sometimes when you're doing gut work, if you take certain supplements too close to sleep, and I don't necessarily mean energy provoking ones, but anything that's impacting the microbiota or like shifting it one way or the other, I have seen sleep disruptions for literally the same reason, because if it's too close to bedtime, it's disrupting the microbiota and therefore the serotonin and therefore the melatonin.

So sometimes just literally backing those supplements up in general. Yeah. a little bit is important. There's also like a quite a class of people. And I think it's even worse in the last four years since COVID because of this. Um,  if you were already in a not incredible adrenal state, COVID kind of like threw it way off the rails.

And so I think there's more hypersensitivity than I've ever seen before. And so there's an entire class of people who are what I would call hypersensitive. And in general, there is low nutrient stuff happening. They don't have nutrients to do certain processes. So they tend to like kind of overreact to supplements or maybe a little bit.

Like it's like too much and too stimulating. And all of those people. They can just not take supplements after 2pm and they're going to be better off for sleep purposes.

I love that timing piece, that kind of chronopharmacology  aspect of things. So even if it's not like you're removing the supplements, but just shifting that time.

It can be

a big deal. Actually, for certain people.  

Okay. It's like the

more sensitive, sometimes that little shift will make a pretty big difference. So yeah, supplement timing can be kind of important. Some people it doesn't matter at all, but some people it totally does. So yeah. Adjust. Yeah. Just adjust.

Absolutely. So we talked about how we see these, these patterns, um, trouble falling asleep. So I don't know if you want me to go about it from that perspective. There's so many perspectives on which we can come from this. I want to know what would be most helpful for you instead of me. So, so far I know we were going to talk about what contributes to energy and there's such a like a.

such a beautiful, um,  choreography between sleep and energy, right? And so when you're addressing gut stuff, I shared that already. So if you address gut imbalances, then you're improving digestion. Typically, there's a few other pieces there. There's several pieces, but generally, you're going to improve digestion.

You're going to have pathogens that are not stealing nutrients, not interrupting sleep. I think this is unfortunately very common. I think there's a lot of reasons for it. We can go into reasons for it because that's the question is like, why is this such a big problem?  Yeah. Resilience is not amazing.

It's probably the easiest way to talk about it. Maybe our food system is a little bit conducive, possibly, I would say just generally.  It's a bit of a domino with stress, in my opinion, when your stress is up, your digestive capacity goes down, you literally suppress your stomach acid and your pancreatic enzymes, so if you are not digesting things beautifully, undigested stuff feeds crap.

I think thinking about it like your lawn is the easiest so yeah undigested stuff feeds the weeds the weeds thrive they they crowd out the good stuff and then before you know it you have all these dandelions taking over the entire garden just like replicating recycling recycling and then you essentially this dandelion seeds give off endotoxins and those toxins circulate through your body and they cause fatigue after eating um they may cause skin issues I mean they can cause literally anything literally anything you know

Okay, wow.

And I love that analogy. So addressing the gut

is important, is an important piece of energy. And I think maybe a capstone here is just to remind you, you don't have to have gut issues to have gut imbalances. So it's okay to like do, you know, I don't know, maybe there's some assessments online, but it's like.

I think that people have come, become accustomed to a certain level of gas, bloating, burping, indigestion, heartburn, and so I hear, I always have to ask questions really carefully, like, when do you experience this, and it's always funny when people say, like, a normal amount of this, and I was like, Hmm, that's interesting, there's not exactly a normal amount, I mean, there are times where you may experience it, maybe you're eating out, that would make sense, because you're having trouble digesting this new thing, maybe you're eating beans, and you never eat beans, so you don't make those enzymes very well, that would make sense.

But I wouldn't necessarily consider these things normal. I would consider bloating and gas and things like that to be a sign of something not digesting in that moment. Now, sometimes we can explain it because it's like, oh, that makes sense. And sometimes it's like, but if you're just seeing that you have an explanation, well, then you don't know what you don't know.

And that is fermenting stuff, creating that.  result, essentially.

Wow. Okay. So for you, when people are coming your way and they're struggling with sleep, you'll address some of those foundational pieces, the circadian health, the mineral components, but then instead of going down some sort of path of like elimination diets or what have you.

Yeah, I don't do that. Right. What you've moved yourself and the people that you're working with is more focusing if I'm hearing correctly on the gut health aspects of things and some of the structural components of that of how they might be when they're taking in some of their supplements and the types and really listening critically to what they're dealing with symptom wise and then how we can kind of create a kind of customized approach.

Totally. And another way to think about it is actually my goal is to support all of these under recognized systems. So gut, drainage, detox, liver. Adrenals and thyroid. And so I would say all of these are connected to your sleep in some way, shape or fashion. And there are people that may be in, you know, what you'll see now is people have all these preconceptions about gut stuff because they think they've done a bunch of gut stuff.

That's fine. If you've done a lot of work like that, or if you've been on a restrictive diet, you may actually need to start with more minerals, more nutrients. Those people tend to be, if they're still struggling, they tend to be a bit depleted. Bye.  After a while, if you do protocols for a very long time, you tend to get depleted.

When you're depleted, your other systems don't work because all systems work on nutrients, essentially. So,  at the backbone of it all is nutrition, how you digest it, how you absorb it. So, when we start with minerals at the very beginning, stress essentially dumps minerals. Minerals are the little spark plugs that make all energy processes happen.

They make all enzymes happen. So. Essentially, if there's any hypersensitivity, if there's any overreaction of thing, if they're like, if it seems like the person is quite fragile, usually nutrients, adrenal support, drainage detoxification support is helpful. And sometimes how you, the sleep can be a very useful tool in helping you assess which system to go to first.

So maybe that's a pretty cool angle. So remember, if you are having trouble falling asleep, I am often thinking about the gut. I really am. But let's back up to the obvious other stuff, which is lifestyle first. Um, and so I want to offer that first. Let's just talk about that one component of falling asleep.

And then let's go to night waking and what that directs us to.  Um, so trouble with falling asleep, we talked about How the, you know, how you can maybe kind of like fake it till you make it in the gut and create serotonin and melatonin because the reality is I'm usually pretty willing to do whatever to get to sleep and on the same note, a lot of people come to me with skin issues and eczema and I have a hundred million percent empathy for this because I had major eczema stuff and then during one of my pregnancies, I had what is called pureitis, which is basically like Uh, your body wants you to wake up with a rash itching half the night for your third trimester.

It's exciting. It's exciting. Oh my god. So, um, there are times and at that time I just slathered in castor oil, gave me four hours of relief and eventually it was over and yay, whatever. And I actually, at that point, before I've had babies, I wasn't in practice for myself. I was doing other work. And so, you know, you don't know what you don't know necessarily.

And often when you're in duress, you're kind of like throwing the kitchen sink at it. And then you're like, I'm not really sure what's helping. So I'll just acknowledge that very human component that we all have. Okay, so skin stuff. People complain about, um, that a lot. And so we can come back to kind of what that looks like.

Anyway, back to trouble falling asleep. So I think a lot about gut stuff and serotonin, etc. But the step before that is a bit more lifestyle. So, and I'm sure you've covered this, but this can lead us to kind of what's your tendency. So, of course, as you know, I'm sure you talk about this here being wired and tired.

I kind of ask my clients, like, do you feel like you resonate with that and or. I just listen to them and hear what they're telling me and sometimes there's a lot of that revenge bedtime or it's like I did my work all day or I put kids to bed or whatever and I went time to myself so I'm going to stay up and watch this thing  with the fake light and all the whatever it is or I'm going to do my bills because this is the only time to do it.

And so what happens is we indulge in some kind of, uh, activity that raises our cortisol. And I'm not immune to this. I remember telling my husband, like, we are not watching Yellowstone before bed. Like, you know, this is awful. Yes. This is horrifying. I

relate to that during COVID. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

So when we raise cortisol, it takes about 90 minutes for it to come back down. And so, of course, you can't fall asleep when you go do something active and then you lay in bed and you're like, duh. So, as you know, I will not exhaust that any farther. That sort of implied or part of it, you know, just a mentioning.

It's not just this. What if it's also this first, right? So just kind of offering that.  If people have issues with nighttime waking, I'm going to zoom in on the time and then it's going to tell me kind of when I would tell them that I would expect it to resolve.  Um. So if they're waking and again, these are all with like the best assumptions in mind.

So I did start Probably within the last year. I finally added like tell me your exact sleep schedule on my forms before every appointment I hadn't been asking that

amazing. What

is hilarious is all the intelligent people that Reveal to me. They're not enough sleep time and that's okay. Yeah, there's no judgment But don't expect a miracle if you're sleeping six hours, right?

Like, whatever. And guess what? There's research, you know, they're, there's an amazing guy and he's doing a health tech startup. And he's telling me how he went on a business trip and how they're working 20 hours a day and sleeping four hours. And he's like, yeah, I feel better in that moment. I was like, yeah, I'm having a bit of, um, I told him I'm having a bit of trauma, uh, to this time.

I had this client who her brain was. Broken because she would stay up two days at a time to do work projects and finish them, which is like,  intelligent people, brilliant people doing crazy things.  Trying to,  you know, and like literally doing, and there's a lot of biohacking involved. So anyway, yeah, thank you to these people for allowing me to share their story anonymously.

Well, and I like what you said that too, because you're pointing to a really common thing where people have experienced that for them, there has been those instances where they might even like some of the feeling of that kind of cortisol stress, right? It's like familiar and it gets them going.

I feel more focused and function if I just go and I was like, I understand that you are running on adrenaline.

I understand that you are. Yeah. There is a, this is like, this is kind of like running on cortisol, right? Exactly. Either one. I don't care. It doesn't matter. It's basically, I liken it to pressing on the gas, like you're speeding through life. Yes. And then when you're speeding, you use up more gas. And then once you're out of gas, your gas tank is empty.

And then you're kind of just like running on reserves. Yeah. And so that's when you go try it alike. You know, you go try to do something. Let's pretend this is, I don't know, an example, maybe not the best one. Let's say you go do cardio and you're like, whoa, I needed a nap that weekend. Right? Yeah. Pretty good sign.

You're running on reserves. Your adrenals suck. And this is the whole hypersensitivity conversation. And so adrenals, let's just like set up the stage here for a second. Adrenals sit on top of your kidneys. They're a very under loved organ system. I  Often people and you may have some wonderful clinicians that listen to this podcast, I would imagine because doctors are dealing with people who have sleep issues all the time, so they're probably looking for solutions.

And I would say don't blame your doctor, their adrenals are also fried, um,  because working with humans, you know, can have some, have some challenges. Working with anywhere can have some challenges, so, um. stress depletes nutrients. And I would say in general compromises challenges mitochondria, which are like the powerhouses of the energy of this like cellular energy.

And so all of this is very nutrient dependent and adrenal issues are a huge thing. And like post COVID, you'll generally see people like kind of go off the deep end. Like we have like this dizziness issue or this or this or this. And I'm like, it basically is adrenal problems, right? Like it's a bit more nuanced.

generally adrenal issues, like, um, and of course, adrenal stuff, you know, we hear us dancing around these topics all the time. Yes. Adrenals produce, um, so here's some just very clear ways on how you can know, like, what's your adrenal health looking like. Yeah, please. Um, you know, sometimes like cortisol gets this, uh, we talk a lot about cortisol, right?

And I'm sure you talk about it here. It's like you, you wake up in the morning, you see the sun, it should rise 30, 60 minutes, you know, usually 30. Um, and then that should be the highest for the day. So you should be able to feel like you can wake up if you feel like you can't wake up without coffee. Um, maybe you're not having a quarter, maybe you're not having a natural cortisol spike.

Most likely you're not. right? And then it should go down. It should not like tank in the afternoon. That does happen. Should not tank. Should be at the lowest at bedtime, right? So there's all kinds of things. There's the cortisol curve, the points of it. And then what hormones are the adrenals producing? So cortisol is essential.

No cortisol, you die, right? So that's why it's always like running on reserve or it's like can barely function. And I'll tell you, this is a really nuanced one.  I used to feel like I had a lower back ache, actually, when my adrenals were sad. I was like, Oh, my adrenals are crying. I like learned, figured it out in time.

I created all this crap for myself too. Yeah. Um, and how I did that, by the way, I think this is important. I, because you have a couple. People looking to improve their sleep, those who have sleep issues, and then those who are optimizers and optimizers are somewhat biohackers. Sometimes no offense to anyone kind of started because some people find that term offensive,  but that might mean you you'd like love to experiment.

I honestly am almost a bit of a biohacker myself, right? Like I do love to experiment, and in 2017 I was working for a program.  Um, with a health celebrity, and we were developing a fast intermittent fasting, um, program. And so I was. Fasting and like most things that start with good intentions, they can accidentally slip into like, not done well.

And so what happens, especially in women, is I see the crash on the other side. So I like basically crashed my adrenals and thyroid essentially. Um, from literally just under nourishment, right? Um, through, through poor fasting. Because before, you know, first I'm skipping breakfast and before you knew it, I'm having coffee until noon.

Yep. I did the same thing. That was kind of the lead up to my sleep breakdown was doing exactly that and being so proud of myself. The later I could push it. So healthy. Yeah, exactly. And it was actually funny when you when we were just talking about the client that you spoke about who felt better.  I was in that camp to I'd be like, Oh, I can actually look, I can get so much done without as much sleep without as much food.

How great, like, what an amazing hat. So

amazing what we like to convince ourselves.  

Exactly. And the reality is, is like

you crash on the other side. And when he told me this, I was like, Ooh, I'm having like a bit of a response where this woman like literally had such a hard time getting better. She was so broken.

And that's one of those cases where when someone is in You know, someone's in very dire straits, they do really well with, like, the blue blocking glasses and all that stuff, like, they're very sensitive, they tend to need that more. For me, I,  I don't, I, I kind, and I, this isn't bragging, like, I have these glasses here, and I just, like,  It's not really a big thing for me, and it will get into my habits later, but like, I'm not really going to be hanging out on my computer late at night, like, I'm generally not really under artificial light all day.

This is my preference. This is a, this is an environment I've created. Not everyone has access to that. And you know, I go into schools and sometimes the teachers like put, you know, literal like crepe paper over the lights and I don't know all the details about that, but man, what a softer, what a softer space for me.

Yeah. Both of my offices have really good natural light. And, um, I've always and maybe this is actually a bit of an adrenal issue of I've always hated artificial light, like I've always just kind of like felt really like I was like, Oh, this is so harsh and ugly, like, and I always write natural light. And so.

You know, because of that, it's sort of like this natural thing, right? And so we have to ask ourselves, I think that's why it's always important to kind of just observe our own life. Like, am I under artificial light a lot? Am I exposed to a computer a lot? I am exposed to a computer a lot. I am, you know, and I probably should protect my eyes more than I do.

I have all the crap to do it. I am also literally looking out and the window is filtering some of the good light rays, right? Like our, our, our colleagues who are circadian nuts, you know, are doing a better job than I am right now, right? They're like other stuff. Yeah. Um, all that said,  I'm not in dire straits, right?

And so that's okay. When you're in dire straits, it's sort of like, if the issue is, is a bigger issue, the intervention really has to be bigger. And

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Sleep and use the code. Sleep is a skill, all one word at checkout for a discount.  And also too, just to underscore, 'cause I actually just had, I dunno if you're familiar with, um, Dr. Stillman out of Florida. He's a quantum biology circadian leading md. He was saying something similar of, at this point in his life, he doesn't have to wear the blue blockers as much.

And similar for me, that's what I would like to have set up for most people if possible. For your main environment where you're spending most of your time, ideally, we're engaging behaviors that are not then exposing us to so much of this light that we need to block anything because like, what if we could just have nothing much that we need to block for the most part?

And that's kind of our goal is so then and then if you go out to target, you know, at 8pm or something, and it's a crazy blue block blue light present, then you can pull on the blue blockers if you want, or what have you. But that it doesn't have to become something where you're beholden, because now life just kind of works for you.

Yeah. So I love that.

Yeah, it sort of depends. I think sometimes And I just like back up because I'm kind of at the point in my career where I'm always kind of like stepping back and kind of just really looking at things and how our behavior is and it's no problem like we all go through phases, I've been really kind of like trying to dig into like what these phases look like in the early stage when nothing when everything sucks.

Your overall approach is like a little bit of a spaghetti at the wall, you know, it's like, I'll try anything, you know, and it's a bit of a desperation. And so we can be a little bit dogmatic because we haven't learned how to trust ourselves completely sometimes either. And so, and that makes sense because until you have results, it's kind of hard to believe in things.

Oh, I get it.  I get it. I just, I just like to like, I just spend a lot of time  offering that we don't have to like hate on ourselves for just being humans and for like wanting normalcy, etc. Right. And so it's like,  I live part of part of low stress life for me is like, I'm like, Yeah, I'm not gonna stress out about this because it's not like, and that said, I am quite diligent about turning my phone red at night because because I love the result of my eyes don't hurt from squinting at night, like, Yeah, right.

It's like you turn it red and you're like, This is incredible. Anyway, back to hormones that the adrenals create. The hormones create cortisol. It's essential. If you don't have it, you die. It also creates aldosterone. Uh, the adrenals also create aldosterone. Those help manage blood pressure. That doesn't mean that you have blood pressure issues.

If your adrenals are fried, your blood pressure, you might be lauded at the doctor for you have low blood pressure. Congratulations. It runs on the lower end. Yeah. Been there. The other thing that you will see with aldosterone, this is, and I'd like to share this because I feel that I am most of my clients and like  And so, I used to, I never really thought I was afraid of public speaking, but when I would speak in front of people, I would say I would pit out.

And I now consider that as like kind of a blood pressure, aldosterone response, honestly, like my body was like sweating, um.  Through that, that stressor, essentially, that's how I view it. Yeah. Um, another, uh, hormone that the adrenals make is  DHEA, an incredible hormone that you can measure. I mean, this is a lovely hormone that one could measure in serum, um, could ask the doctor to order, because if it's running low, and again, not necessarily within range, but just like look where it is on the range.

If it's on the lower end, this may mean, if you're, If your adrenals are producing low amounts of hormones, they're probably not keeping up, right? And if they're not keeping up, then this is going to underscore your entire energetic abilities, right? Like, you're not going to have sustainable all day energy.

And so DHEA can, I don't really serum test this because I can kind of just tell, but what does it do? It helps manage lipids. It helps manage blood sugar. So if your DHEA is in the pooper, You are not going to be able to go more than a few hours without eating without feeling shaky. For sure. Problematic.

Yeah. Yes. And especially maybe your lips will be off. Maybe not. You know, probably not.

Yeah. And we see this too for people when we talk about introducing circadian aligned meal timing and giving some, you know, just a little bit of space, nothing egregious. but a little bit of space between your last bit of food and bed to be able to digest there.

We have a number of people that are like, I can't possibly, I need to be eating every couple hours and what have you. And then that can be a cause their

DHA probably sucks so that you can tell they could take DHA. There's nothing wrong with that. I tend to go. There's so many. The good news is there's actually several correct answers, so there's always multiple ways to arrive at the same.

I don't do a lot of DHEA because I am avoiding hormone replacement therapy until last phase because it's just not my jam. Yeah. That said, we can talk about that because it is so relevant to sleep also. Um, I kind of like address all the other stuff first. And by the way,  your adrenals, I always like to say, your adrenals are never going to go out of style.

If your adrenals suck, perimenopause and menopause will suck. So like because they're taking the brunt of hormone production when your sex hormones are like, I'm actually going to check out now because you're done childbearing. So  anyway, um, DHEA, so you can test that. But my approach to supporting adrenals is heavy nutrients.

So mitochondrial nutrients, minerals, and maybe specific adrenal support. So just like things that adrenals love. There's some nuance here. I don't overthink it. I actually kind of just go with stuff that like works for either scenario at this point. But if when you're learning about this, you can you may or may not learn that certain adaptogens are more stimulating and some of some herbs are more calming.

And so if you already have low adrenals, like the conversation is, do you want to over calm? And if you are already wired, Like you're, if you're speeding and you're not out of gas yet, so your adrenals are running high or cortisol is running high, do you want to be more stimulating?  I actually just kind of hit a happy medium.

I don't really tend to have a lot of issues around this overall. Um, I find stuff that kind of just works for every scenario  and roll with it and certain things work better for certain people, but, um, I don't overstress because then again, like you can almost overthink a thing  and it's going to be fine.

I do not, this is a funny, um, a lot of people talk about ashwagandha. I don't use a ton of ashwagandha. Because it doesn't take me long. If I get bitten a couple times by something, then I'll avoid it. There's a reason. I think it's the processing, um, I have read. So I've had a couple people who I just have like a weird feeling when they do a gashwagandha.

And so then I, I will not like, Explicitly avoid if it's in a blend that I already like, that's no problem, but I'm not out, you know, at this point, I, I am able to create a few supplements that have multiple benefits. So that way you're not taking a million individual things. And I do see the. Some of my clients come in and they're got a separate bottle of ashwagandha and that's fine.

I always say like use things up or we'll use them up later. I love using up supplement graveyards if needed because it feels nice because I have that trauma history too of a supplement graveyard. So no problem. I just like to be like, I think it's a, it's like, how can we, it's a bit of a game. Like how can you take the fewest things with the most ROI type thing?

So I don't explicitly avoid it. I'm just not like over, if someone said like, what's your opinion on ashwagandha, I wouldn't be like, Yeah, go take an individual ashwagandha. I tend to like steer more toward  nutraceuticals that are like not going to hurt anybody. I think L theanine fits into that camp. L theanine is an extract from green tea.

It's just kind of calm focus. It's not necessarily drowsy for me, but it's like helps with being chill.  In full transparency, I woke up, I believe at 5 a. m. from cortisol today, the last two days have been like a bit, my kid broke his tooth off last night, um, you know, life, it's literally not a complaint, it's just like,  wow, there's a lot to do before I leave on this vacation with children, right, and so, anyway, I believe that I woke up, because it happened two mornings in a row, and I was just like, yeah, I'm not in a beautiful place, so I'm going to go outside, sit with this.

And sometimes I don't have the opportunity to do that. And the reason I'm sharing this story is because when I don't have the, when I can notice my stress is not okay, but I don't have time to go sit. Cause that's reality too. Like maybe I must go to an appointment at that moment. I will then indulge in like L theanine and GABA just to like bring myself some calm focus.

So I'll use nutraceuticals, not as a crutch, but as an adjunct when I need them.

I so appreciate you sharing that. I'm sure all of us can relate to exactly what you're speaking to. And this is this. dynamic ongoing balancing act to kind of play with this, whatever done, we think that now we've got it all mastered, then something else lands at our plate.

So, yeah. And it's life. It's just

normal. There's no, it's not that we're going to reach no stress, perfect cortisol. It's understanding resilience, understanding it enough. So that way, you know how to respond to it. My whole thing is like, you kind of unlock a new level when you understand your body enough.

So if you want to be very disconnected. So here's the cool part. Um, it's not necessarily good or bad. I'm guessing you have, like, these are your clientele. I think that we're pretty damn disconnected from our head to our body. Yes. And some people, like, they'd be like, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about, because that's how disconnected we are.

And I say this because I literally was that person. I am connecting. And so when this is literally unconscious, unrealized stress. And so When you're kind of just going and doing the thing and it's like you don't have any time to stop and pause, it's like, yeah, you're kind of farther off in left field and you kind of like, it's like, let's figure out what's going to bring you, you almost have to like, pull that person in with getting her to feel a little bit better and then be like, let me show you more,  even to me, right, you know, and so something so helpful and reassuring to me is just reminding myself, I'm just a damn human.

I'm not like better or worse than anyone else. And all of the things I've dealt with are just super helpful because my clients are all mirrors. Yeah. of me. So, you know, I know we have all these people that are just disconnected, unrealized, but those, my heart goes to these people. These are all like your executive, you know, the, all these high achievers just going, you know, all these busy people just going, going,

yeah.

Until they can't go anymore. Yes.

Totally. I can't figure out why I can't do this. I'm like, Well, it looks like you've been running on empty for a while. No problem. There is an explanation. And you know, this also looks like I don't feel great, but my labs are perfect. So.  Yeah. It really does. It really does.

Because the stuff that we're showing, talking about, I did mention, you know, you can see DHEA on serum. No one's going to check that. No one's going to check your own basic stuff. And if we want to build for just a moment. on like energy, you know, if your energy sucks, it's like all of the things are connected.

So, you know, earlier I was like, yeah, I got to support gut and you got to support drainage and detoxing, you got to support thyroid and adrenals. But if we're just focusing on like, what if I just want more energy and let me tell you about a few things you could easily check if you wanted to, um, on blood work.

So, like if your gut, if digestion is ever compromised, B12 will be low. Um, and B12 is. a very easy nutrient to support, and it tells you a lot about your body, and it's not normally checked. Um, I always like laugh, people are like, I got my labs done, they're perfect. I'm like, you had three dollars worth of labs, um, done.

Yes. No problem. I mean, so it's such a, for me, it's always so hard, cause I'm like, you ask a simple question, I'm like, hmm. I have a long answer for this. Like, you really didn't do much for labs. I'm so sorry. Yes. Also said, I'm past the point where I really need a bunch of them. But anyway, if you want some that are actually remarkable and maybe give you a little bit of a lift.

Yeah. Um, B12. Since I've been in practice, the reference range, the lower end used to be like 450 500, now it's like 200, because it's based on the current population. That's atrocious. You're going to feel exhausted. Uh, the worst case symptom with B12, low B12, is maybe brain fog. Gosh, there's so many reasons for brain fog, but um, tingling extremities, actually.

This is

really a digestive, so support the B12, no problem. You're not going to really hurt yourself with that, typically. There's one that will promote, promote more anxiety, but.  Um, in general, you're not really going to hurt yourself to do that for a while and like bring that back in so you can like function, but just keep in mind, it's actually a digestive problem because it has a lot to do with protein digestion.

So having low stomach acid, suppressed through stress, low minerals, etc., breaks down protein, B12 absorbed, etc., right?  So that's a big one. Like, there's just so many like little, like, what about the labs that you could check that would be off?  that you don't know are off, right? Or what about other things that show you subclinical reasons?

And for me, I always think, like, if you can understand symptoms around a system, it's very empowering, because by the time the labs tend to be off, it's sort of like, ooh, it's a little worse by now, right? And I will use the thyroid as a pretty good example. To be perfectly honest, there's not a lot of labs that we're testing for adrenals.

You've probably talked about this here. You can go get cortisol testing done. If you're testing cortisol serum, not really great. You're really looking at a Curve. So four point test. So not, and I don't know how accessible that is at the doctor because I don't care very much. Um, so I'm not really sure how easy it is for people to get.

I think it probably depends on whether you live on a coast and you have a progressive provider and there's, right, exactly. But just so you know, there's not a ton of testing. So that's where that DHA could come in handy, right? Yes. And then there's other things that will show you. It's like, Hey, you could get a B12 done.

You could get a D. We won't go off on a D tangent right now, but there's so many things that can tell you what's going on underneath. That piece, which I think is really beautiful.

Ah, well, thank you. That is very helpful. And I loved how you had pointed to some of your own struggles, kind of mirroring your clients and vice versa.

So I think that might be a perfect opportunity for us to shift gears, to learn how you are managing your sleep now, given that you've devoted your life to really ensuring that you're helping to support. The people that you're working with and yourself to live this kind of less stress life in many different capacities.

So the first question that we ask everyone is what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now? Yeah,

it depends. I think I just have an identity around I'm going to get enough sleep non negotiably. Yeah. So the easiest thing is, is always I'm. Usually going to be in bed around the 10 o'clock hour, maybe earlier in the winter, maybe later and then up between five to seven, but ensuring that I'm going to get eight hours, right?

I'm just going to do that math there. I'm not going to do something I have. I actually choose not to do things very often in the evening. super late because I say to myself,  I'm not going to promote my stress. It's funny. Like I was so behind on workouts a while back that I was like, I'm going to go work out and I'm not going to do anything cardio esque because I don't want to send a message of cortisol to my body.

Like I was like, I'm such a comedian right now. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to pump these weights really calmly because I want to go to sleep after that. Oh, funny. Just like I, you know, you, you always, you always have these crossroads. So I'm pretty simple during menstrual cycle week.  I tend to things a little bit more because I notice a little bit more of like an up regulation on things.

There's several reasons for that. So I might, like, it sort of depends on like if I, if I have a lot going on or if I want amazing sleep. And I think I especially take more care of sleep when I'm traveling because it's so easy to like  screw it, like suck at sleep when traveling. So I will take things along that I consider sleep aids like a magnesium or an L theanine or whatever I'm kind of into at that moment.

I have a lot of. Garbage because I try a lot of things, right? Same. And, um, I love magnesium 30 60 minutes before sleep. Works great. I prefer an Epsom salt bath every once in a while, right? That's great too. But I'm not, I don't have some two hour elaborate sleep routine, which hopefully is, feels good to people.

And it's sort of like, because I have the identity, I'm like, I do my red automate as much as possible. I like to turn down lights. Like, I hate the lights being super on. Yeah. Right? And then, I go to bed and if I'm having issues, that's when I can lean in more, right? Like if I was not falling asleep at a reasonable time, then I'm going to add more, right?

But because I'm falling asleep at a really normal amount of time, you know, five to 15 minutes or whatever, it's not an issue for me, right? So I'm falling asleep. So that's my nighttime routine.

So perfect. Well, thank you for that. And for also providing context for what happens when you're traveling or extra things are thrown in the wake.

So love that. And then the second question would be, what might we see in your morning sleep routine with the argument that how you set up your day and start your day can impact your sleep?

I'm pretty committed to my, um, morning sun exposure.

Yay.

And my electrolytes. Um, am I perfect all the time? No, but I'm pretty dang okay.

And you know, I, and I, I  go with the season as well. So if I'm not hitting it, then I'm creating it with a light. Um, cause you know,  light changes. All year long. So we're recording this in July. I'm taking advantage of that, right? Like I'm enjoying the hell out of being outside in the summer. Amazing. Like doing my thing, eating my breakfast out there.

It's amazing.

Yes. Oh, um, fantastic. Okay, great. So that's how you start your day. And what might we see in your bedroom, on your nightstand, or maybe your traveling, proverbial nightstand, when you're on the go, ambiance, etc.?

Yes.  This is such a funny question because we replaced, I got rid of the carpet in my bedroom last week, which I'm thrilled by.

And so everything came off my nightstand and not much has gone on. So there's three books and I have a, um, I have a light. I have one of those alarm clocks. Like I have a few of these. I just haven't really loved them. I think my husband did not love it. That's always like a whole challenge on its own is like the dynamics of partners and, and light stuff.

Um, like we have blackout shades and I'd like to be able to let the light come in to an extent because I don't have outdoor, I don't have light pollution where I live. Yeah. Um. So anyway, but I have this little light that I do not use that could turn on. I think it's really valuable in the wintertime, right?

The ones that are full spectrum light alarm clocks. I have one of those and then I have basically three books. That's pretty much, that's pretty much everything. I have like my supplements if I want something in a drawer right there.

Keeping it simple. I love it. Uh, yeah, we find a through line with a lot of people with those answers.

Kind of minimalism and not needing to be dependent on all kinds of gadgets and gizmos to like try to get yourself to sleep or something.

I should mention I like to mouth tape like if I feel really committed or if I feel like I've been exposed to illness or something. I'm pretty good. I believe that I've been doing, I've been working on like oral facial stuff for a while that I believe my mouth is staying shut.

Like the majority of the time, so I don't feel like I'm dependent on mouth tape to your point, but I know that my deep sleep goes from, has gone from 30 minutes to two hours with mouth taping. So with breathing through my nose, so it's kind of a big deal. And so I tend to prioritize that even more with travel or illness season or anything like that.

Oh, sure. Absolutely. Okay. Love that. And then the last question would be, so far today, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep game or maybe biggest aha moment with managing your sleep?

Couple things. I have mentioned this a few times, but I love the little trick to turn your screen red on your phone.

I think that that is, That's great. really important because I think a lot of us like use our phone morning and evening and they can really screw a thing. So it's sort of just the hack to like bypass it totally screwing with everything.  So I think that that's very important. Honestly, I'm really thankful for that little tidbit and it's free and easy.

And then honestly, like resolving my skin stuff was really important, like getting to the root cause of it because being a lot of people are awakened from nighttime itching and you know, it's no fun. And I've been there too.

And you totally get it and like how frustrating that can be and frustrating like the understatement of the century when it's just ongoing and chronic or acute.

So love that you have addressed that, shared your own experience so then you can help support others with that. So good. Now for people who might want to work with you, follow you on social, be a part of your world, check out your podcasts, etc. How can they do all those things?

Yeah, my podcast is called The Less Stressed Life and on Instagram, I'm the anti inflammatory nutritionist.

You can find, if you Google those things, you'll find me regardless, but I'm at kristabigler. com. So everything is there.

Perfect. Love it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. So grateful. And I just love the work that you're doing and the. thoroughness by which you're helping to support people in these kind of complex journeys, but also helping to, you know, pull in this holistic approach and really ensure that nothing's left unturned.

And it's really incredible work.

Oh, well, thank you so much. I forgot that I added a new thing called retreats, which I think are super valuable. It's like this beautiful, um, there's this beautiful thing where you come make everything better. Like recalibrate, reset, and then go home. And, um, I will say, like, that's a huge life calling for me.

And I started doing that this year. So I have a retreat coming up in September and then next year one in Texas. So I'm very excited about that.  

Amazing! Less

stress life retreats.

Whoa! Where is the Texas one you said? And then we're talking about the Texas that one is next

spring, so it's not that's why I have to come to Austin to, um, scout for locations.

So my goodness. Okay. Amazing. Well, so cool. So glad you mentioned that. We'll make sure to have all of that information in the show notes. So people can check out all this and more, but thanks again for taking the time.

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.  

You've been listening to the sleep as a skill podcast, the top podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level.

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