200: Dr. László Boros, UCLA Prof & Biochemist: Unlocking the Hidden Link Between Deuterium & Sleep

 Welcome to the sleep as a skill podcast. My name is Molly Eastman. I am the founder of sleep as a skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change as an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. thinks about sleep.

Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness.

And I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health. And by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

Welcome to the Sleep and Skill podcast. Today's episode is going to blow your mind. We're diving into a cutting edge area of sleep science that you've likely never heard of before. Deuteronomics. Joining us is Dr. Laszlos Boris, a biochemist, physician, and leading researcher in the field of deuterium metabolism.

With a distinguished career spanning UCLA, groundbreaking metabolic research, and even collaborations with emergency responders and military professionals, Dr. Boris is at the forefront of understanding how this heavy hydrogen isotope could be influencing your sleep, energy, and longevity. From mitochondrial health to metabolic  ketosis.

This conversation will challenge everything you thought you knew about sleep and nutrition. Could deuterium be the missing link in your sleep struggles? Let's find out. And we're going to jump right into the podcast. But first, a few words from our sponsors. Please check them out because they really do keep this podcast alive and running.

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And this is a limited time offer, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results.  And welcome to the Sleep as a Skill podcast. I am very excited for this conversation today, mainly because it's really one of the first times on this podcast that we are going to be diving into a whole new topic for many individuals.

And if you're familiar with this topic, great, we're going to go deeper. But if this is the first time you're hearing about this and its connection with sleep, yay, you're in the right place to learn from one of the best. So thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

All right. Thank you for inviting me.

Thank you so much.

Yes, absolutely. Very excited for this conversation. I know you are a leader in this area, so we might as well start at the beginning and just a little bit about how you became such an expert in this space.

Yeah, so I'm a biochemist. I'm a physician by training and I was teaching biochemistry and I was also doing a lot of research on my own and also in collaborations with various other Uh, research  institutions, institutions, but I, I was.

From the very beginning interested in basic fundamental biochemistry medicine or biochemistry and somehow proton transfer or hydrogen transfer is so important in biochemistry energy transfer for that matter. that needs, and needed a closer look, and that's how we kind of got tangled up in, tangled up in deuteronomics or deuterium, which is the heavy isotope of hydrogen, and it causes a lot of,  like, trouble, just, like, say the least, as far as biochemistry and, and sleep.

For that matter, and, uh, you know, we kind of, we were diving into more and more details of deuterium, how it behaves in biological systems, how it behaves in neurocytes or, or, or nerve cells for that matter. And we have learned that because our nerve cells.  have to use and utilize glucose, uh, at least 25 percent of their energy source, sleep patterns and sleep becomes very sensitive to of like how much of this heavy isotope you load in your system while you're awake.

And we learned that actually sleep is to, uh, obtain, achieve a Metabolic state, meaning that you don't eat for six to eight hours and you slip into a metabolic ketosis or you start burning fat by the time you passed the few rapid eye movements, uh, phases. And then you start burning fat, which is low in this heavy proton or hydrogen isotope.

And by the time you deplete or get rid of some of these heavy deuterium isotopes, then your sleep is done. That means you wake up on your own. And for that matter, this is a brand new topic. This is a brand new area in biochemistry and in many clinical applications. Sleep is One of these very important applications, but apparently there are other like cancer chronic disease  related issues that are also benefiting from this knowledge of how our system deals with this heavy hydrogen isotope, which is unfortunately more and more present in food and processed food especially.

And, um,  we are actually positioning this knowledge. Into various areas of medicine and one of the main applications and where to get like very improved health is practically how to assess your sleep to, uh, nutritional interventions that have little or less of this. having a hydrogen isotope so you can make your sleep easier to get a balanced proton deuteron or hydrogen and deuterium ratios that is compatible with your brain function that is compatible with your emotions that is compatible with your biochemistry in general and for that matter for your cellular health and then you can live I would say a more complete a better life simply because you don't have to wake up tired, you don't have to sleep too long, you can actually, uh, kind of, um, guide your sleep simply just when, how much, and what to eat, what's the source, and these are very important components of sleep.

So this is what Deuteronomics and this is what Deuterium does for, for medicine.

Wow. Well, thank you for kind of giving us more of this bird's eye view. And I think for many individuals, it's still a very new topic, or if not the first time that they're hearing about this. So maybe just further breaking it down, like deuterium 101.

And if they're coming in saying, well, you know, I'm just struggling with my sleep. How do I know if deuterium is part of the conversation? Maybe walk us through bridging that gap of how to make this really a practical takeaway for people to really get in on this conversation that's, as you pointed to, like a newer avenue at health and well being.

Sure. Thank you so much. So where we should start is practically just, uh, see what hydrogen does in our system. This is the most common element in our body. This is the first atom or first element of the periodic table. This is the smallest atom that is making us or making our body a physical entity, but 60, 70 percent of the atomic composition of our body is actually hydrogen.

The rest is carbons and, uh, and, and oxygen. Now,  It's not only a atomic composition, it's also involved in energy transfer and what is more and I would say most important is that hydrogen is able to help ourselves to rotate these very little nanomotors in our mitochondria. Mitochondria is probably something that you are familiar with and your audience know about.

This is a little cell organ now that produces. energy or ATP or adenosine triphosphate and also water,  uh, from food that carries the hydrogen and from the oxygen that we breathe in, which is a huge part of, of sleep, how our breathing pattern, how oxygen saturation and how oxygen partial pressure and how oxygen excesses and what it does in our cells.

Now, sleep is a very different state.  As we all know, then being conscious or, or, or being active, that's practically a semi unconscious state where our mostly affected is our metabolism. And what happens is that  as long as you're awake, if you feel a little hungry, then you just get a snack or something.

That's, that's the most common scenario. Now, when you sleep. You can't do this simply because you're like, you don't walk through the freezer, unless you do sleepwalking, but you do sleepwalking, but practically what you do is you leave your body in a fasting state where you don't eat for six or eight hours, depending on how long your sleep pattern and you get into a fasting state.

metabolic state that is called burning fat or metabolic ketosis. So you start burning your own fatty acids because your glucose, your carbohydrates, your amino acid, uh, base nutrients for your cells, you know, after like two, three hours, those are limited. And then you have to burn fat to produce energy, uh, and heat during sleep.

And that's when this whole metabolic adaptation to sleep comes in, and that's what we call is metabolic ketosis or burning fat. And ketosis is getting now in the mainstream of, of, of medical research simply because there are many benefits. Fasting, religious fasting, and those things have some heart measures and sleep measures for that matter.

And, um,  Understanding this little mitochondrial process that uses these  nanomotors to produce energy or ATP or anions in triphosphate, these are affected by deuterium or these heavy hydrogen in a dramatic way, meaning that they break down. So our brain and our sleep is to protect these little  nanomotors to accumulate too much of this heavy hydrogen isotope in the mitochondrial matrix where these nanomotors are spinning, so you can spare those nanomotors till the next day when they can actually start up and, and catch up with, with, uh, the energy need, energy demand of your daytime activities.

Um, now, what We really need to kind of understand is that practically sleep is a very important protective mechanism of these very fundamental biochemical processes in our cells, which are to produce water from food and oxygen and also to produce enough energy ATP for daily activities and for exercise and and for exercise.

uh, muscle activities and, and for all those daily demands. And if you don't start in the morning with a fresh, uh, ketosis or ketogenic brain that is burning ketone bodies, which are short chain  hydrocarbons for that matter, these are high octane gasoline, if you, if you will, then you, you're going to have a much better  um, kind of daily routine as far as your energy level, as far as your concentration, as far as your cognitive functions, as far as, uh, your social activities are concerned, simply because your brain says your nanomotors are, uh, functioning better.

Now why brain needs this Six to eight hours of, of being fasting is practically because of the glucose that they use have higher deuterium levels. Um, what  nature kind of created, uh, or God or evolution, whichever you like of these versions. Um, your brain is the most active metabolically. Uh, your brain is the most active organ in your, Including your eyes, including your neurocytes, including your energy and, and axons and, and neurotransmitter synthesis, those are, those require a lot of glucose, which have high deuterium, meaning that these nanomotors are at higher risk of breaking down and 25 percent of your energy supply in your brain has to be from glucose.

And the reason for that is. Because your brain cells have to produce these neurotransmitters. These neurotransmitters need an anabolic substrate and it's glucose in our system. Otherwise, the brain is very protected from metabolism. Your blood brain barrier only allows glucose.  And some very specific or specialized fatty acids to pass through this membrane, this, uh, barrier system.

And so you are left off when it comes to brain function with a very narrow range of substrates.  Actually, because of this very narrow range of substrates, and glucose have this high, like, concentration of these. this heavy, uh, hydrogen isotope, deuterium, it, your brain needs to kind of, uh, filter it out, get rid of it, uh, make sure it's not too much building up during daytime activities to cause any kind of, like, psychological or even physical, uh, like, difficulties to carry on your daily activities.

And this is also a  kind of related topic, because it depends on what you eat during the day, how much of, how many times, and what's the source of the food that you consume. That really affects your sleep and sleep patterns. And we believe that This carnivore ketogenic  lifestyle with low dutium grass fed animals, that's the most optimal, uh, interiors, um, you know, organs.

Those are the most optimal low dutium proton or hydrogen source for  Neurosite functions and sleep pattern or sleep is the best and the shortest and the most efficient if you adhere to this type of dietary  habits and for that matter you can improve your own sleep, you can See how your daily activities and how your cognitive functions and how your brain functions improve based on these dietary changes and how you can adopt to a better biochemical kind of, um, ATP and energy supplying mechanism, mechanisms that are several and you can actually improve your sleep by practically changing your diet and the dietary habits and you can see like sometimes very tremendous improvements.

Um, and that is a very common, uh, kind of scenario that we see in people who learn about deuteronomics, learn about how to control deuterium intake, what's the control mechanisms there are, and what food, and what dietary habits, and what lifestyle to follow to expose your brain to the least amount of heavy isotope, heavy hydrogen.

or deuterium and how to get rid of it the fastest during the sleep cycle. And for that matter, this is something that I think every, it's going to be more and more, uh, popular in the sleep. Sleep is a skill arena, I believe, because it has many other had benefits. And we are hoping that  Uh, people who are emergency workers, firefighters, policemen, and in fact, I'm working with the Seattle Fire Department where,  where they actually have 24 hour shifts and there is disrupted life cycle and circadian rhythms and it seems deuterium depletion can fix many of the heart problems that they face.

Wow. Okay. Incredible. So you foresee that in the future, this will be a much more well understood concept. Like, do you almost see that this could be, you know, how people have certain diets that they practice? Would we see deuterium based diets so that we know certain types of foods and the ranking of that?

Or is that kind of taking a different direction and really it's about prioritizing particularly the ketogenic diet or there are a lot more nuance than just that.

So the best, the best way of looking at this is your optimal diet or the highest octane gasoline for these ATP energy producing because we are actually burning in our system.

We are oxidizing and this is why we breathe in and out oxygen. Yeah. And breathe out carbon dioxide. We are actually. We use these nanomotors just like an engine or like a moving, uh, like hydrocarbon burning gasoline engine. But those are actually very many in our mitochondria, but practically the process is the same.

You burn an organic material into carbon dioxide and water, and in the meantime, you produce energy. So for, for that matter, This whole system, this whole biochemical system really depends on the quality of food that you consume and how much of it and how quick you can switch from one fuel, which is carbohydrates, to  fat based or fatty acid oxidation,  which is hydrocarbons.

How fast or how quick your system can kind of switch from one Substrate to another. And that's what sleep is about. Practically in the first four or five hours of your four hours of your sleep pattern, you have these muscle activities, these rapid eye movements, these very active like brain waves and electromagnetic  activities.

And that's practically to burn sugar as fast as you can and switch to fat as fast as you can.  And for that matter, you want to be in a sleep. metabolic ketosis  as fast as you can, simply because that's what's gonna help your brain, your brain functions to perform better in the morning. So that's how you can get rid of this heavy hydrogen isotope deuterium.

And it has many benefits in other areas of, of, of, of clinical and translational medicine. This is how we look at cancer, obesity, diabetes, which are disease processes that make your sleep pattern also  risky. Sure.  And when you look at emergency workers, Um, the disrupted sleep cycle is practically to switch them back to, especially if they come back from an emergency situation, they start eating because they want to kill time simply because go back to sleep.

And that's the total disaster when it comes to sleep and, and maintaining health. And that's why they retire early, because their health becomes compromised, and simply because these disrupted, interrupted sleep patterns, and kind of the metabolic, um, disarrangement or the metabolic, uh, confusion that you confuse your body, especially your brain, of what to burn and how to get rid of DTM, that's an ultimate goal of improving their health.

Uh, situations or they had compromises, and this is why we are working with  in Europe with military people and also in the U. S. with emergency crews  to help them to address the metabolic aspect of sleep and to keep their health.

Yeah, so important. I'm so glad you're doing that. And you know, kind of helping to support others to do the same.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, then there are a few things that we can do to support kind of the depletion of these levels and ratio of deuterium. And one is what we've discussed, you know, metabolic flexibility, supporting potentially a ketogenic lifestyle. And I guess my question around that, if I got that correct, then would be, Okay.

ketone esters. Any application with those? Any connection or not worth it?

Yes. So the ketone bodies or the ketone esters, they are used by your cells to produce energy and water without any. like  side products. That's the, that's what we call the complete biochemical combustion or the complete biological oxidation of your substrate to burn it into carbon dioxide and water and energy.

That's what Every engine does when it burns fuel efficiently. Now, if you and when you eat diet that is not a grass fed, ketogenic, low duty, seasonal, and I could list here what are the very important, uh, like, aspects and what are the very important bullet points here is that your food, just like, we are carnivores.

Humans are carnivores. That's why we have the dentures, the teeth that we have. That's why we have the gut. That's why we have our digestive, our microbiome and so on. So we, the best for us is with very little green or, or, or vegetables and especially fermented vegetables. You can, you can add this to your diet, but your main Food source is usually the hind steaks, the fatty steaks, the meat that can be burned from grass fed animals.

So they are not exposed to glyphosate. They are not exposed to, um, like, uh, there are various gene modulated GMO products and processed foods and so on. And you can stay away from high sugar. food, meaning that you, you let your body to regulate the team,  um, between and among these very narrow ranges that are necessary for your, for your maintaining your brain function.

And the first thing that happens, it's very interesting, is that once you start a ketogenic, grass fed, ketogenic diet, uh, you, with interior, so Unfortunately, you have to like liver a little bit. You have to  kind of eat not only vegetables, fruits and meat, but interiors as well. A good liver pate and those kind of, you know, in Europe, those are more common.

Those are less common, but these more interiors here. But practically, those are actually high in fat. they have, they contain very high fat or fatty acids or triglycerides. In the meantime,  Your body can figure out how much glucose to produce from the glycerol, from triglycerides, how much fat to burn for energy and carbon dioxide.

So it's the most balanced and the most versatile food source is practically your grass fed beef or, or, or, uh, if you like salmon, those are  very good.  A catch caught salmon, so you can just kind of adjust your team level based on your nutritional habits and the source.  What we used to do is we actually got our grass fed source from San Francisco.

I, I, I lived in Los Angeles, so they have some very nice farm. There's a, uh,  a steakhouse between Los Angeles and San Francisco. We made sure we stopped there to eat a good grass fed steak. Nice. It's called Mary's Ranch. Ooh. And. And, uh, they,  they have the, I would say the, the,  as far as the U. S. dieting habits are concerned, they have the lowest DQM,  uh, natural grass fed, uh, beef source, and that's where, and it actually showed up in, in our, uh, sleep patterns because  I was, I used to, I used to be  And five kilograms, which is about  210 pounds.

I mean, I was much  bigger than I am now, and I went back to my high school weight. Now I'm 72 kilograms. In high school, kilograms. And it's all about diet, nothing else. It's all about diet.

Yeah.

And my sleep pattern improved so much that I always go to sleep around 11 o'clock at night. I eat, uh, evening hours around between eight and nine.

It's, it's, I eat once a day and, um, I'm in a main course. And it's always a  entails or meet with sufficient with some, some greens with some vegetables, but that's not the main  

of my

dish  and, uh,  Suddenly, I figured that my cognitive functions, my memory, my mood, my performance, as far as how fast I can do, uh, reviews, make editorial decisions, because I do a lot of academics and editorial work, and I was surprised, like, how  much Like, more efficiently, I could make editorial decisions, uh, make, uh, publication recommendations, and so on, and with what, what, what, what a comfort level of, on my side of evaluating all the scientific data and such.

And then, interestingly, I didn't have to sleep in like eight, nine o'clock in, in, in the morning. I could actually get up at like five thirty, six ish, and I was actually totally rested. I could take the dog early out walking. I was done with a lot of routines. And first I was a little bit worried that maybe I'm not rested enough, but.

I don't use elevators. I go in and and do my, my stairs. Uh, and that's what we do with my dog. We, we, we don't really use any of these kind of comfort measures.  If you have to climb, if you have to run, if you have to walk, uh, we can do that for hours. I usually walk seven, eight, uh, kilometers a day in the morning hours with the doggy and, and, and, and it's very comfortable.

It's, it's, it's just practically a  very efficient way of handling my own body. And spending time outside, sunlight, and so on. Just getting to this rhythm of being part of nature without being worried of, did I eat right? Did I eat enough? Did I eat right? So it's just practically a very comfortable situation knowing the biochemistry of it.

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but what appears to be richer quality sleep,

better quality. Definitely.

It's really an interesting piece. Quick question. And I don't know if it's just something that needs more research, but commonly one of the things that we'll hear in kind of the health and wellness space around ketogenic diets for women of menstruating age, being mindful of the point in their cycle of when they're going into ketosis, do you have any thoughts?

on that if, if like women of menstruating age could make this a routine lifestyle. Yeah.

So it depends on, um, what their, uh, physiological need and exercise pattern and life stress conditions. And what, what are the stressors that they have to do? Because  it's a different physiology from, from the matter of how we look at these things.

And, uh, but what is really. like uniformly true of all that the sleep is kind of, uh, let in. The sleep starts with yawning and  yawning is very interesting in the sense that first of all it's contagious, meaning that the herd will go to sleep together and it's Always a inhalation. You actually inhale and you keep that breath without ventilation.

You increase the dissolved oxygen in your blood, meaning that you increase the dissolved your blood and any liquid contains about 300  milligrams of oxygen O2 per liter of that's how oxygen is dissolved. Now, if you pressurize this like in a soda bottle, you can make more oxygen to be dissolved in, in your blood.

And that's what yawning does. It just practically keep in the oxygen, your, your, your chest pressure, your, because of the inhalation, your the pressure in your chest  cavity is, is higher. So there's more oxygen squeezed into your blood as dissolved O2.  And this helps a cellular organelle  to start burning fat that is called the I'm not sure if you, if you heard it or not,  peroxisomes.

Have you heard of peroxisomes?

Loosely heard. I do not know it well at all. Yeah.

Yeah. But those peroxisomes, they produce peroxide, hydrogen peroxide from fat. Yeah.  Not elementary oxygen, but, but O2 or, or molecular oxygen, and that doesn't require your red blood cells to be involved in the oxygen transfer process.

So that's why when you are sleeping, you don't have to gas, you don't have to breathe heavily, your breathing slows down to six to eight inhalation exhalations per minute, meaning that it's close to that kind of half of what you do daytime, simply because your oxygen, oxygen. And your metabolism,  oxygen delivery gets to the dissolved oxygen instead of the red blood cell or the hemoglobin  carried oxygen.

You kick in a cell organelle called peroxisome that can only burn fat.  

That's

really interesting. It  can't burn carbohydrates. It can only burn fat and it produces the TM depleted hydrogen peroxide for mitochondria during sleep that can be Turned into metabolic water through catalase, which is the fastest enzymatic reaction  in in biological systems, so sleep is a metabolic miracle if you will  It turns on little cell organelles that can actually have burning fat get rid of the team  uh, preserve the integrity of the mitochondria of these little ATP synthase nanomotors.

And the nice part of being at UCLA, that's where Paul Boyer was working, who got the Nobel prize for these nanomotors. And so I knew him and it was really a very fascinating kind of, uh, uh, circle of, of scientists who could actually look at these. mitochondrial proteins that actually turn physical, make rotations and the catalytic side is actually a turning protein for that matter.

So it was the whole idea of how we understand metabolism had to be redesigned. Yes. These very interesting discoveries. And Deuteronomics as it. kind of gives you clarity and understanding of how these cellular mechanisms, uh, complement one another, how they help each other, especially during sleep. That's a fascinating story.

This is coming. I'm sure there's going to be more and more conversations about this. And if you want to try, you can actually for your own just, you know, benefits, you can try the ketogenic natural. grass fed  lifestyle. And then you can see your own, especially when it comes to women, women, because their, their physiology is different, how much fat they build, how much fat they burn, what their hormonal regulations are, what cycles they are in.

Their optimal food is still a grass fed ketogenic, uh, food source and not drinking too much water, practically. It's just to replenish once you, when, when you're thirsty and you drink as much as it's necessary because of the anti diuretic hormone regulations and so on. So, There's a lot of details that are, we just did a podcast with Dr.

Kirtz and Chafee, um, about how drinking water would affect your system and, um, too much water would affect your system and it, and sleep patterns and so on. So it, it, it, and sleep is a big, huge part of this.

Yes.

I, I have to tell you. Um,  we didn't want to get into sleep too much, but then we had to simply because there are some biochemical adaptations that really can only explain by this dissolved oxygen, the paroxysomal mitochondrial crosstalk.

We just published a paper with Dr. Senef where we looked at Adrian Ballinger's Like how he made it up to the top of, of Himalaya to the Mount Everest and he had to be in a natural ketosis state.

Yes. He

had to turn back six times before he could go up there without a supplementary oxygen, but that required a metabolic ketosis.

Meaning that low endothelium. So, and it. Definitely, it's a performance sleep pattern related  complex entity that you have to understand to, to, to see what happened. And, and, and I think after all, all these challenging situations and all these, uh, hard to understand. mechanisms coming a little bit closer or cleaner or clearer as far as what the biochemistry behind those events and this proton deuteron or hydrogen deuterium ratios that are regulated by sleep.

And assisted by, by specific, uh, lifestyle and, and feeding habits, uh, those are a huge part of this, this entire story.

Wow. So incredible. Clearly we're only just scratching the surface.  Just introducing this quick question before we find out how you're managing your own sleep since clearly you tear about this topic of sleep, you're clear of it's the intricacies of how it is such a part of this story.

So I'm very excited to learn how you're managing your own sleep. But before we do that quick question about water options. I know you mentioned the water piece, but one of the things that we're seeing in this wellness space is what appears to be pretty expensive deuterium depleted water and then options there.

And then also people investing in different types of hydrogen waters. Is there, is it worthwhile to explore some of these? Maybe if you're really dealing with some major health issues, or is it. just way more nuanced.

If you deal with major heart issues, let's say you have a chronic disease, let's just name a few diabetes, obesity,  gut forbidden cancer, or you know, those kind of things, then you want to deplete Deuterium as fast as it's as and as efficient as possible.

So you start drinking deuterium depleted water. Now, if you are doing this for recreational purposes, meaning that it's really not a kind of a, uh, a disease management type of situation. just practically just to be yourself, uh, then, uh, you don't have to drink deuterium depleted water as much as like you want to do this to deplete deuterium.

You better if you produce your own water from food. Yes. that comes from grass fed animals. Because you, we turn around a day, we usually turn around about 2, 000 gallons worth of protons in our mitochondria. It's about 7. 5 cubic meters of water. We, that's how much protons or water we recycle in, in our mitochondria.

It's not going to appear as, as, uh, like water. pools but you actually that's how your biochemistry that's how your enzyme reactions every enzyme reaction in our body has to deal with water one way or another as a proton source or as a solvent or you name it so  practically when you Look at this water drinking scenario.

It's a therapeutic approach and has to be  105 or lower, uh, as far as the team content.  And you have to drink as depending on the disease state. And there are clinicians who actually work on these topics very efficiently.  Now, if you are not. Uh, using this as a therapeutic approach, then you should mostly listen to what your brain and your water  pool in your brain, which is,  uh, the hypo, the pituitary gland or the hypophysis is practically to regulate water reabsorption through anti diuretic hormones.

Your kidneys produce about 180 liters of blood. primary filtrate every day, meaning that drinking four or five liters of water or one gallon water makes no difference of how much primary filtrate. And ADH, antidiarrheic hormone, can control how much water is taken back into circulation. So you don't really need to drink water unless you are thirsty or thirst is not going away.

If If, if those don't happen, you're in a kind of a beginner state of diabetes insipidus, which is ADH, lack of antidiuretic hormone activities. And when I talk to physicians, unfortunately, U. S. population is below 0. 5 millimole per liter, which is very low. Practically as far as ADH or antidiuretic hormone is concerned and you can die of water poisoning.

If you drink a  liter of water or two liters of water in 15, 20 minutes, you're going to die because of brain swelling.  Your, your, your hypophysis or, or pituitary gland sits in the sellotuzic, which is a bony, little bony structure in the bottom of the cranium of your skull, and as it swells, it actually disrupts this ADH, anti diarrheic, anti  diuretic hormone synthesis, and you start urinating, you start  diuresis, and that's what happens when you drink too much water.

You, um, Don't produce this antidiuretic hormone. It has a very short half life of only 15 minutes in your circulation or even shorter than that. So practically, this whole brain sleep pattern, water intake, food intake, if you understand the necessity  and, and like how nature preserve everything in our body without overloading it with any type of, of excess in food, water, and vitamins, supplements, and so on.

Those are not necessarily just like, you know,  you know, you can actually consume anything, but not everything is good for you. So that's, that's, that's what you have to kind of fish out from this biochemistry information of how sleep can be. Uh, adopted how sleep can be involved in this whole process and why water consumption and food consumption are so critical to improve your skill and as a sleep as a skill and how to be skilled to sleep well based on what you eat, how much you eat, when to eat, what you drink, how much you drink, when it's so it's practically it kind of a, uh, uh,  a very, um, uh,  like smart system to figure out exactly how to optimize it.

Yeah,

that's what Deutonomics comes in handy.

Oh, amazing. Okay. Well, glad you're at the forefront of this to help guide us on these things. And to that point, one of the things we've found is that when we learn what other people are doing to manage their own sleep and well being. We often kind of can pull some gems or learn from them.

So excited to learn from you and how you're managing your own sleep. And the first question that we ask everyone is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now?

I go to bed around 11 o'clock.

Okay.

I don't stay up too late. Yes. I go to bed around 11 o'clock. I fall asleep very quick. I fall asleep very, very quick.

That means.  in less than two minutes. Out. That's, that's what my partner is saying. It's less than two minutes, I'm gone.

You're out.

I have a, an uninterrupted sleep until 5. 30 to 6.

Okay.

And it's very consistent. Sure.  Yeah. And when I wake up,  Um, I'm alert. I can't go back to sleep.

Got it. Yes. So it's, it's, there's not like a situation where you're waking up feeling groggy or zombie like or taking, yeah, it's not like that.

I have to do my pushups. I do 31 pushups. I make a coffee in the morning because I, I do start my day with a coffee, not at six. I usually do a little bit of reading in the meantime. I'm not getting out of bed, but I don't go back to sleep. I just. Occupy myself with some, I'm, I'm kind of just get ready for the day.

I can't sleep any longer.

Yeah.

I, I can't go back to sleep. I'm not tired. I'm not sleepy. Um, it's new to me because I used to have, um, like very hard times falling asleep. Sometimes it was, I couldn't  like fall asleep for an hour and.  It was very  uncomfortable because you, it's just practically, you know how it feels when you want to go, when you want to sleep and you just can't sleep.

And then,  I woke up in the morning, it didn't make a difference if it was 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock. I was still kind of a tired person.

Yes. And it

took me, um, I would say at least a half an hour just to get my, my sleep. just to orient myself and you find out what, what I'm going to do that day or what's, what, what priorities there are or what things that I have to do.

Um, so I can't go, I can't sleep too long. It's six, seven hours, seven hours is the most. I don't sleep longer than that, but it's a continuous pattern. I don't have any problem falling asleep. Actually, it may be a little bit too quick.  

I'm

not sure how I should be.  But uh, so I have to kind of do everything before 11 o'clock because I know after 11 o'clock,  I'm going to be very, very sleepy and I fall asleep very quick once I have the opportunity.

Wow. Okay. Amazing. I feel like that kind of tracks with From an ancestral perspective, we've had evolutionary anthropologists on the podcast who studied the Hudson tribe in Africa and their sleep patterns is about to be releasing a book called The Sleepless Ape and looking at how of apparently across all mammals, we sleep some of the least by far.

And one of the things that they found was that in these hunter gatherer tribes, it was often. in the seven hour or maybe less range often and even into the sixes or so granted this is like one tribe but noteworthy or interesting that when living in accordance with nature and they are what appears to be largely most of their dietary source is meats and maybe a little bit on the side but that's like the core so it is interesting that we do kind of see that more ancestrally.

If you think about it that way, sleep is, for us, is a very dangerous situation in the sense that we are practically unprotected.

Yes. In

the sense that you don't sense your environment.  Animals or tribes that live in the wild, they cannot afford to sleep too long, to  get up too tired, because that's a life for them.

It's life and death.  Practically.

Exactly.

So, uh, and this is what I've learned like going through these sleep.  Like habits or sleeping habits and nutritional habits as long as I adhere with my routine depleted grass fed, uh, animal interiors. I only need this six and a half hours. That's even  I think it's even closer to the seven, seven and a half hours.

That's the that's the longest practically.

Yes.

And, uh,  I don't have to feel like.  I don't have to be, um, unable to carry on my daily activities. I don't have to make a, like,  fashion up kind of, uh, um, exercise patterns and so on. I just do my daily routine simply that fits in my physical needs, my exercise pattern, which is very limited.

I only do 31 pushups.  takes 30 seconds a day to do this. I don't go to the gym. I don't go and do physical exercise other than walk the dog and do my 31 push ups. I don't eat, uh, main courses during the day. I have a coffee in the morning, then I eat in the evening and it's always a grass fed, ketogenic,  uh, natural food, um, that, You know, I just want to adhere to this pattern simply because it fixes my sleep and it fixes my day.

Yes,

you just kind of address then some of our the other side of the question of how do we start our day and with the argument that how we start our day and live our day can affect our sleep. And you mentioned about the morning walks with the dog and how you are setting up your days as far as you're still can have your coffee or what have you, but that you're able to then count on getting great sleep.

So anything we missed. in the morning routine that's important to you. I know you, on your website it looks like you also practice cold therapy if I'm reading this correct.

I always shower in cold water. I always walk half naked. It doesn't matter how cold it is outside. Yeah.  I can kind of do this for an hour, hour and a half, um, and the only thing I do is I just cover my, my nipples simply so they don't get frozen.

Yeah. I

mean, it's funny as it is, but that's all I need.

I love  that.

I have to be outside. I can't sit. Inside, I have to be outside regardless of how cold it is.

Yes, same. In

Europe, we have a little bit colder winters than in California.

Yes. And I

always do cold showers. Mmm. Meaning that  those are,  those are, I don't like too hot, I don't like too warm.

Um, if I go to the swimming pool, I usually spend hours in the cold water. And that actually helps my, energy production, my nanomotors, my water recycling and so on. It's very refreshing and, and it really fits very well with this diet and with this sleep pattern.

Sure.  

I don't use like blankets, uh, big blankets.

I use just a cover. So, um,  if there's mosquitoes, they don't bite me as easy. But interesting that most, even the mosquitoes don't bite me because they don't see me. Because I don't have deuterium circulating deuterium in my blood. So it's funny because sometimes what I do is if there's a mosquito in the room,  I check, I find them in the morning and I want to see if they have blood in them.

Never.  Because they don't, they don't see me and also the ticks don't dig in because they don't,  because they like deuterium. That's why, that's why they, they soak. That's why they, they eat, drink blood. And, um,  as interesting as it is, because the dog is somehow, sometimes has sticks and  they just don't find me, they don't see these insects simply because you're, and I, I guess in nature, this is one of the key of kind of preserving your uh,  like biological entity is to be in that deuterium level that other animals can adopt or they can see or not see what is your deuterium constellation or what your deuterium content that has a lot of  Um, environmental benefits as far as looking at insects, how to sleep in a constant pattern day, weeks, years after, and there's no deviation from it.

And this is what surprises me as well, that is just really not changing.

Totally. Absolutely. It's

really interesting that it's just I know I'm going to wake up at 630, 530, 630, depending on when I fall asleep and I know what I'm going to do in the morning. I know how much time I have. I know exactly what the plan is.

So you can kind of start your day with a Rest not sleep, but with a comfortable rest and get ready for a walk to be outside and then you can Stay  inside and do your work But that pattern is really necessary the sunlight the red light everything that starts your circadian rhythm You don't want to miss any of that because that backfires as far as how to  

So true.

I couldn't agree more. And then our third question is, what might we see on your nightstand or in your sleep environment? Any call outs there?

Nothing.

Nothing. I love it. We see that trend a lot. Minimalism seems to bring the best sleeper.

I don't even have a nightstand. I have a little couch next to my bed and I  turn off the wifi.

I turn off my phone.  It's just I have a phone outside. If my mom calls me, um, if there's an emergency, but that's all that I have, but I don't have, I don't have water. I don't have pills. I don't take pills. I don't I really don't like need anything at night.

Amazing. Oh, OK. And then the last question would be to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to the management of your sleep?

Diet.

Yeah. Absolutely. Right.

So,

so the ketogenic diet in particular for you?

Grass fed ketogenic diet with muscle, fat, and interiors, liver, and those kinds of things. That made a huge difference in my life in general, including the sleep patterns that I have.

Sure. Sounds like, yeah, it was very much interconnected.

I don't know if you've seen any of this, but, um, some of like Dr. Chris Palmer's work, brain energy, bringing this idea of kind of mitochondrial psychiatry into the conversation. Are you in alignment with that? Cause I know you mentioned your moods. kind of shifted to as you went into this ketogenic diet.

And it's one of the things that from a psychological perspective or seeming to see as we produce and support a mitochondrial health seems to be beneficial for our mood, right? Yeah,

that's I think that's another intriguing part of this whole story, because. Yeah. At my age and my academic standing, I have to make a lot of editorial decisions, publish or not to publish, you know, those are very responsible because some  groups they put years of efforts in that and you have to be very thorough and careful when you make decisions of that sort.

Sure. And surely sleep helps me to be calm, to be fair, to be realistic, and to be helpful.  It's, it's not criticism. It's not to critique other people's work. It's practically to help them to improve, to, to publish, to put something together that can help science. Yes.  And since we do this work, uh, and I do a lot of editorial work, I can handle.

10 15 papers a month simply because  I have a very fast routine. I don't have to wait for reviews because I do ask specific questions. I don't let authors to wonder with their topics or be like unsure. If, if I have to make decisions at the editorial level, the this and that has to be in that paper, I very clearly say that to them.

And, and then it, it, it actually your psychology or cognitive functions have a very strict relationship with mitochondrial functions, process of biological oxidation and so on. So, Those stories are all true. Those stories are all serious. And these, those need to be considered based on Deuteronomics.

What's the mechanism for this? And this is what we can actually do for them.

Okay. Beautiful. One quick question. I know we talked about Deuterium. Pleated water and its potential place. Maybe if we're dealing with certain health considerations, just wanted to double check if I heard you, because we do hear a lot of people investing in hydrogen water in particular, any thoughts on that, if that's worth exploring.

Hydrogen water is very good. in general, simply because if your hydrogen source is deuterium depleted, hydrogen gas, this is how our eye operates in our, in our retina, the, the cards and the  rods, they don't use blood supply. They only use water and sunlight to break it into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.

Besides our gut microbiome or gut bacteria and, and, and the, the yeast and, and the different a single cell species that live in our system, they also produce hydrogen gas as well. It's part of the regulatory process of how protons and deuterons are regulated. So for that matter, if the hydrogen source is right, meaning that you have a deuterium depleted hydrogen source, in fact, I do have a hydrogen machine next to my computer.

I don't drink it. I, because I don't drink water, I actually breathe it in. And since it penetrates your skin, because it's what, uh, fat soluble, the hydrogen gas is so penetrating through your skin and, and bones and everything, I just inhale it, but I, I use it regularly and it has very beneficial mood, cognitive alertness,  calm,  psychology is very different when you start using these scenarios.

One after the other and connected in a certain way that is kind of  that is explained in this conversation and also the experience with your colleagues and and those other authors that  publish about these topics. But the bottom line is the underlying mechanism is practically the dietary approach of what you eat, how much you eat when you eat and how in harmony you can actually resonate with nature.

And that's practically a hydrogen bond somewhere in your system that serves the structural and the conformational changes for that matter. I think after all, sleep just helps to deplete, regulate this deuterium and food helps you to actually make your sleep easier to do, to do so.

Oh, so well said. Well, thank you so much.

And I know your time is valuable. And, uh, so I so appreciate you taking the time. Real quick, how can people follow your research or be a part of your world to keep abreast of the latest in this world?

Yeah. So I have a website, which is loslogboros. com. It's very simple. It's my name. No dots, no separators, just loslogboros.

com.  And I do a lot of podcasts. So if you go to  PubMed, you type in BorosLG, those are my papers. If you go to my website, there's a lot of podcasts and there's a lot of educational material and papers that we've published  regarding deuterium, deuteronomics and how that can be used to. Like, have psychology and physics, physical performance in sports, but practically, and my email is boris.

laszlo at yahoo. com.

Amazing. Okay. Well, we'll be sure to put all those in the show notes and just so grateful for the work that you're doing and educating people. I mean, look at the difference it's made in your own life, let alone, you know, the ripple effect. Yeah.

Oh, you know, if you want to know about this, just ask me, I'll tell you.

I love it. Well, thank you so much and more to come. Who knows, maybe a part two around continued research with sleep and this whole field. It's very exciting.

There is always a part two. Yes.  

Love it.  You've been listening to the sleep as a skill podcast, the top podcast for people who want to take their sleep skills to the next level.

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